Opinion of George W. Bush

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I disagree with his views and policy, but that is in the past. Right now obama is president. The only thing that bothered me is watching how conservatives would go at unnecessary lengths to defend the guy.


During the Bush era I still remember how conservatives would occasionally bring up the Clinton era, and talk about the monica clinton scandal. I was always surprised by how often a conservative would bring that up years after it happened.

John, I'm gonna gag......The Big O's administration constantly bad raps Bush......and I see no sign of it ending, do you?

If they are doing it within the context of foreign policy, and economic policy than it is probably justified. Conservatives on the other hand would continually make "poop" jokes about Bill Clinton even though his policies were not as relevant.

[Mint]

I disagree with his views and policy, but that is in the past. Right now obama is president. The only thing that bothered me is watching how conservatives would go at unnecessary lengths to defend the guy.


During the Bush era I still remember how conservatives would occasionally bring up the Clinton era, and talk about the monica clinton scandal. I was always surprised by how often a conservative would bring that up years after it happened.

That's just partisanship in action.

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Except they'd be wrong because Bush was never a consistent conservative, at least not as that term is traditionally understood. What he did in terms of spending, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc. should put to rest that notion. Unfortunately it's taken years for Republicans to be honest with themselves and many still aren't.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I disagree with his views and policy, but that is in the past. Right now obama is president. The only thing that bothered me is watching how conservatives would go at unnecessary lengths to defend the guy.


During the Bush era I still remember how conservatives would occasionally bring up the Clinton era, and talk about the monica clinton scandal. I was always surprised by how often a conservative would bring that up years after it happened.

That's just partisanship in action.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Except they'd be wrong because Bush was never a consistent conservative, at least not as that term is traditionally understood. What he did in terms of spending, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc. should put to rest that notion. Unfortunately it's taken years for Republicans to be honest with themselves and many still aren't.

Traditional sense...blah,blah, blah edmund burke...blah,blah. Look the definitions are perspective based and many people felt that bush was  a conservative president. Neo-Conservatives are still conservatives, and if they aren't true conservatives....well NTS FALLACY!!!

In any event it isn't important to me if someone is a liberal or conservative,but instead just depends on my ability to agree with them or not.

[Mint]

I disagree with his views and policy, but that is in the past. Right now obama is president. The only thing that bothered me is watching how conservatives would go at unnecessary lengths to defend the guy.


During the Bush era I still remember how conservatives would occasionally bring up the Clinton era, and talk about the monica clinton scandal. I was always surprised by how often a conservative would bring that up years after it happened.

That's just partisanship in action.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Except they'd be wrong because Bush was never a consistent conservative, at least not as that term is traditionally understood. What he did in terms of spending, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc. should put to rest that notion. Unfortunately it's taken years for Republicans to be honest with themselves and many still aren't.

Traditional sense...blah,blah, blah edmund burke...blah,blah Look the definitions are perspective based and many people felt that bush was  a conservative president. Neo-Conservatives are still conservatives, and if they aren't true conservatives....well NTS FALLACY!!!

Many people are ignorant. Let's just face facts. What did Bush do with entitlements and federal spending? He dramatically expanded them through Medicare Plan D, the bail outs, subsidies, etc. Even his proposed 'privatization' of Social Security essentially amounted to continued federal control over it just with people diverting a small portion of their taxes elsewhere. What did he do with immigration? He pushed for guest worker programs and the largest attempt at amnesty since the Carter administration. Foreign policy wise, he was a complete departure from what he and other supposed Conservatives were saying about 'nation building' in areas like the Balkans under Clinton. It's hard to look at Bush's policies and conclude he was consistently conservative, except perhaps in an evangelical way. And if you don't want to debate that, then don't throw out your 'perspective' and treat it as absolute truth.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

I disagree with his views and policy, but that is in the past. Right now obama is president. The only thing that bothered me is watching how conservatives would go at unnecessary lengths to defend the guy.


During the Bush era I still remember how conservatives would occasionally bring up the Clinton era, and talk about the monica clinton scandal. I was always surprised by how often a conservative would bring that up years after it happened.

That's just partisanship in action.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Except they'd be wrong because Bush was never a consistent conservative, at least not as that term is traditionally understood. What he did in terms of spending, immigration policy, foreign policy, etc. should put to rest that notion. Unfortunately it's taken years for Republicans to be honest with themselves and many still aren't.

Traditional sense...blah,blah, blah edmund burke...blah,blah Look the definitions are perspective based and many people felt that bush was  a conservative president. Neo-Conservatives are still conservatives, and if they aren't true conservatives....well NTS FALLACY!!!

Many people are ignorant. Let's just face facts. What did Bush do with entitlements and federal spending? He dramatically expanded them through Medicare Plan D, the bail outs, subsidies, etc. Even his proposed 'privatization' of Social Security essentially amounted to continued federal control over it just with people diverting a small portion of their taxes elsewhere. What did he do with immigration? He pushed for guest worker programs and the largest attempt at amnesty since the Carter administration. Foreign policy wise, he was a complete departure from what he and other supposed Conservatives were saying about 'nation building' in areas like the Balkans under Clinton. It's hard to look at Bush's policies and conclude he was consistently conservative, except perhaps in an evangelical way. And if you don't want to debate that, then don't throw out your 'perspective' and treat it as absolute truth.

The words "Liberal" and "conservative" are perspective based, because their meanings are based off of a  collective consensus. If a Majority of Individuals label George Bush a conservative than he is one, and if a minority disagree with this term it wont change the fact that a large amount of individuals think that the dude was a conservative despite what your personal interpretation of his policies are. His policies may not be line with everything Edmund Burke/ Ayn Rand/ Kristol may have advocated for, but it is pretty easy to argue the Bailouts were both Burke like, and non-Burke like at the same time(I am taking a functionalist perspective here)

I never treated my perspective based concept as absolute truth but it can help an individual gauge the ideological consesus in nominal terms. It is pretty arrogant to suggest that your opinion of what a conservative should be is more true than what most of the country may think.

Even in 2008 George Bush still was held in high regard by many self-proclaimed conservatives. In any event I don't need to debate policy to show what people think, and how arrogant it would be to claim "George Bush wasn't a TRUE conservative/christian any way!!!", despite what so many others may think.

In the end the argument " Was George Bush a conservative/fascist/neo-conservative or not?" is a stupid one in my opinion, and instead we should ask ourselves, "Do I agree with these policies, and do they reach their goals?".
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[segwaystyle2012]

Listen here Hoffman. When you are debating ideologies, it's a pretty good idea to define them. In fact, nothing you talk about is related to ideology since policy is rooted in pragmatism first and foremost. People who don't like George W. Bush and dislike conservatism would obviously try to associate them but that itself as nearly as intellectually dishonest as the majority of your other postings. If I didn't address something else in your post it probably wasn't worth reading to begin with. Please troll somewhere else.

[Vepres]

Name what he did wrong? All his mistakes and failings were in the first term.

Iraq largely stabelized, and he handled Iran and North Korea just fine, and I imagine that Obama's foreign policy decisions, were he President at the time, wouldn't have been much different in the end.

Saying 'less people are dying' isn't the same as 'the war was won.' At best it's just seen temporary improvement while Afghanistan continues to deteriorate (that and the surge failed at achieving any political solution). And we've seen zero progress at all in Iran or North Korea, the former is more authoritarian not less and the latter pretty much openly spits in our face with tests. The only positive thing I can say is we didn't actually attack either as some people feared we might.

By all accounts his Iraq policy post-2007 was a resounding success, given that Obama has changed little of it in his time in office. He also held North Korea and Iran at bay, if not making progress.

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Plenty of people on the left here have called out Obama for his personal failings but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Bush was someone who said things like 'god told me to invade Iraq' and actually seemed to believe them.
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I personally have felt Obama was more arrogant than Bush, but that is my opinion (I wasn't into politics when the Iraq invasion took place, for example).

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

By all accounts his Iraq policy post-2007 was a resounding success, given that Obama has changed little of it in his time in office. He also held North Korea and Iran at bay, if not making progress.

What accounts are you listening to? Another Fox News viewer?

Bush's Iraq policy was a disaster just like Obama's is.

[Vepres]

By all accounts his Iraq policy post-2007 was a resounding success, given that Obama has changed little of it in his time in office. He also held North Korea and Iran at bay, if not making progress.

What accounts are you listening to? Another Fox News viewer?

Bush's Iraq policy was a disaster just like Obama's is.

Nobody with any credibility doubts the success of the Iraq policy post-2007. Sure, invading was a bad decision, but now there is a relatively stable democracy in the heart of the middle east.

[Franzl]

By all accounts his Iraq policy post-2007 was a resounding success, given that Obama has changed little of it in his time in office. He also held North Korea and Iran at bay, if not making progress.

What accounts are you listening to? Another Fox News viewer?

Bush's Iraq policy was a disaster just like Obama's is.

Nobody with any credibility doubts the success of the Iraq policy post-2007. Sure, invading was a bad decision, but now there is a relatively stable democracy in the heart of the middle east.

That really stretches the meaning of the word

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

Listen here Hoffman. When you are debating ideologies, it's a pretty good idea to define them. In fact, nothing you talk about is related to ideology since policy is rooted in pragmatism first and foremost. People who don't like George W. Bush and dislike conservatism would obviously try to associate them but that itself as nearly as intellectually dishonest as the majority of your other postings. If I didn't address something else in your post it probably wasn't worth reading to begin with. Please troll somewhere else.

I was merely giving an example of what a self-proclaimed liberal might say about George Bush and Conservatism. I agree that it would be stupid to attack conservatism because of George Bush, and this is because I think the debate should be more about policy. To often an individual will claim that someone isn't liberal/conservative enough for their tastes instead of stating their policy disagreements.

At the end of the day nobody really cared about wether George Bush was a conservative or not, and instead they just cared about how his policies were effecting their lives/country.

Its all very subjective what the terms Liberal and Conservative may mean. If someone says that they are conservative, and vote conservative I will respect their opinion because it is right the thing to do. On the other hand if someone says that "such and such is not a true conservative" despite what the accused individual thinks, I will come to there defense. I do this because I honestly think it is the right thing to do, and have always found such flammatory tactics be uncivil.

non-denominational Christians like to argue that Catholics are not true christians, and vice versa. Anyone who has lived in an area where such a division is prominent would realize how destructive such an argument could be.

In the end we may feel that we have the right to our own opinions, and this should be respected. Problems only come about when we start treating opinions like fact, and build a strong conviction from any subjective assertion.

[Conservative frontier]

FF, of course

[segwaystyle2012]

By all accounts his Iraq policy post-2007 was a resounding success, given that Obama has changed little of it in his time in office. He also held North Korea and Iran at bay, if not making progress.

What accounts are you listening to? Another Fox News viewer?

Bush's Iraq policy was a disaster just like Obama's is.

Nobody with any credibility doubts the success of the Iraq policy post-2007. Sure, invading was a bad decision, but now there is a relatively stable democracy in the heart of the middle east.

That really stretches the meaning of the word

It stretches the meaning of all three words.

[paul718]

FF, of course

Why?

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

From a philosophical point of view the original question should have been constructed in a conservative fashion. This is because the Goals of Conservatism often emphasize concepts that may have nothing to do with FF or HP.

[Conservative frontier]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

[Chaim]

HP, worst GOP prez EVER! One of the 4 worst along with Wilson, FDR, and LBJ.

[Conservative frontier]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

considering i'm far-right economically I don't care what people say.

[Chaim]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

considering i'm far-right economically I don't care what people say.

Neocons were originally Troskyites.

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

considering i'm far-right economically I don't care what people say.

Neocons were originally Troskyites.

Not all of them.  There ideological split comes from there anti-communist stance that developed in the 1950's, while the paleo conservatives simply were an extension of the old right. Both Camps seem very similar in some categories, but their ideological methods/views can sometimes be miles apart. In the end it is very interesting to see how conservatism had changed and remained the same through out the development of the 20th century.

This may sound kind of funny but the New-Right is a product of Alan Bloom and Strauss who contend that there must be an intellectual vanguard to protect conservatism from the Liberal revolution. Traditionally conservatives have disagreed with the concept of Liberal Democracy, but Straussian Neo-Conservatives are willing to compromise. Thus they are willing to use democracy to accomplish the conservative goal of turning back the liberal revolution.

[Chaim]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

considering i'm far-right economically I don't care what people say.

Neocons were originally Troskyites.

Not all of them.  There ideological split comes from there anti-communist stance that developed in the 1950's, while the paleo conservatives simply were an extension of the old right. Both Camps seem very similar in some categories, but their ideological methods/views can sometimes be miles apart. In the end it is very interesting to see how conservatism had changed and remained the same through out the development of the 20th century.

This may sound kind of funny but the New-Right is a product of Alan Bloom and Strauss who contend that there must be an intellectual vanguard to protect conservatism from the Liberal revolution. Traditionally conservatives have disagreed with the concept of Liberal Democracy, but Straussian Neo-Conservatives are willing to compromise. Thus they are willing to use democracy to accomplish the conservative goal of turning back the liberal revolution.

They were originally pro-communist but abandoned communism when the Soviet Union sides with the Arabs against Israel and abandoend the left when the left became less pro-Israel and more anti-war.

[RosettaStoned]

HP. (FF when he was in College.)

[Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.]

FF, of course

Why?

It's self-explanatory, I'm a Neo-con.

What do you think of individuals who claim that you are not a true conservative? How is neo-conservativism conservative?

considering i'm far-right economically I don't care what people say.

Neocons were originally Troskyites.

Not all of them.  There ideological split comes from there anti-communist stance that developed in the 1950's, while the paleo conservatives simply were an extension of the old right. Both Camps seem very similar in some categories, but their ideological methods/views can sometimes be miles apart. In the end it is very interesting to see how conservatism had changed and remained the same through out the development of the 20th century.

This may sound kind of funny but the New-Right is a product of Alan Bloom and Strauss who contend that there must be an intellectual vanguard to protect conservatism from the Liberal revolution. Traditionally conservatives have disagreed with the concept of Liberal Democracy, but Straussian Neo-Conservatives are willing to compromise. Thus they are willing to use democracy to accomplish the conservative goal of turning back the liberal revolution.

They were originally pro-communist but abandoned communism when the Soviet Union sides with the Arabs against Israel and abandoend the left when the left became less pro-Israel and more anti-war.

They were originally anti-stalinist, but whatever they were just simply conservative late comers.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Probably one of the finest US President's to grace the stage.

His shoe-avoiding skills were sublime. He did, on the odd occasion, over-emphasize some words with the wrong inflection.

Park in Botswana

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