Guardian writer calls for Bush assassination..

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The IRA and related separatist/nationalist type terrorists, dispicable as they are, do not target children.

Not true. Children were targeted in the Omagh bombing

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No... the mob waits 'till the kids leave school before attacking them

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Children were murdered and mutilated in the Omagh bombing, and several others. Children were terrorised by Loyalist Nutters outside a school in North Belfast only a few years ago. Petrol bombs were thrown.

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True

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The Dublin and Omagh Bombings disagree with this

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Mad Dog Adair did/does. The Real IRA does. ETA does.

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And radical Loyalist, Republican, Basque...

[minionofmidas]

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Now that would be a world about as far removed as yours.
No, that's not true. That'd be quite a frigging lot further, even. Thank God nobody in Europe lives on that world. (Many people in Arabia do, though.)

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Quote your recent history fella. Gigantic outcry in the Euro left, not a peep from your president's father.

And now maybe let's all stand back and cool down, allright?

[??????????]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

[Democratic Hawk]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

[??????????]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

Actually most brutality in Ireland is Irish people killing other Irish people...

[??????????]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

Actually most brutality in Ireland is Irish people killing other Irish people...

Care to discuss the Irish Potatoe Famine? The British COULD have fed the Irish.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

Actually most brutality in Ireland is Irish people killing other Irish people...

Care to discuss the Irish Potatoe Famine? The British COULD have fed the Irish.

Wasn't there a really long discussion on the Potato Famine a while back?
Basically the result of letting ideology getting mixed up into famine relief...

[patrick1]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

Actually most brutality in Ireland is Irish people killing other Irish people...

Care to discuss the Irish Potatoe Famine? The British COULD have fed the Irish.

By many scholarly accounts, the Irish could have fed the Irish.  Grain was exported from Ireland during the famine.  The blame for the famine lies with C. Trevelyan, Lord John Russell and other political economists who saw the famine as a good way to reform Ireland's backward economy.  Malthusian and Utilitarian philosophy run amok. The blame also lies with Irish and Anglo-Irish merchant classes who exported grain for greater profits to Britain.  Also blame lies with the absentee landords who evicted starving people off of the land.  Ireland's loss was Americas gain because the famine immigrants had a large role in building this country.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The only terrorism in the British Isles are the British and their terrible history of repressing the Irish. Disgusting.

That's no way to refer to America's staunchest allies! Yes, the British were rather ruthless in Ireland.

Dave

I don't blame the everday british person for the brutality in Ireland. I blame the government. Most brits I know are cool.

Actually most brutality in Ireland is Irish people killing other Irish people...

Care to discuss the Irish Potatoe Famine? The British COULD have fed the Irish.

By many scholarly accounts, the Irish could have fed the Irish.  Grain was exported from Ireland during the famine.  The blame for the famine lies with C. Trevelyan, Lord John Russell and other political economists who saw the famine as a good way to reform Ireland's backward economy.  Malthusian and Utilitarian philosophy run amok. The blame also lies with Irish and Anglo-Irish merchant classes who exported grain for greater profits to Britain.  Also blame lies with the absentee landords who evicted starving people off of the land.  Ireland's loss was Americas gain because the famine immigrants had a large role in building this country.

Like I said, ideology got in the way of famine relief.
Interesting that two big waves of immigrants to the U.S were the result of Rural crisis (Enclosures in the C18th and the Potato Famine in the C19th).

[shankbear]

hey I have always been curious about all those people dying during the potato famine.  Isn't Ireland an island?  Isn't an island surrounded by water?  Aren't there fish in the water?  Don't people eat fish?  Why did they starve?

[patrick1]

hey I have always been curious about all those people dying during the potato famine.  Isn't Ireland an island?  Isn't an island surrounded by water?  Aren't there fish in the water?  Don't people eat fish?  Why did they starve?

http://www.rootsweb.com/~irker/famfish.html
decent explanation.

Fishing is a pretty labour intenstive process.  You need large boats (timber not available), nets, and capital to pay for these implements.  A tenant farmer akin to sharecropper did not have the implements to fish with.  You could not just scoop a fish out of the ocean.  Cod and other fish of the North Atlantic are in deep, cold ocean waters.  Seaweed and kelp were accesible and a large part of the diet.  Inland and freshwater fishing were usually illegal.  As was case in Scotland and England you were considered poaching if you fished or hunted on the landlords land.  Further, the famine did not effect the whole of Ireland equally.  Ulster/Northern Ireland and Dublin area did not suffer like the West because they had a more diversified economy.  The famine affected the rural, tenant/substistence farmers most notably on the West Coast.- the reason why most Irish Catholic American trace their ancestry to W. Ireland notably Kerry, Cork, Limerick, Clare, Mayo, and Galway.

[shankbear]

Thanks Patrick, I had always wondered about that. 

[WMS]

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Now that would be a world about as far removed as yours.
No, that's not true. That'd be quite a frigging lot further, even. Thank God nobody in Europe lives on that world. (Many people in Arabia do, though.)

I still think I'm closer to reality...and I agree about Arabia.

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Quote your recent history fella. Gigantic outcry in the Euro left, not a peep from your president's father.[/quote]

Didn't know about that from the Euro left...last I knew of them in that time period was their screaming over the U.S. bombing of Libya. Live and learn. But I know all about G.H.W. Bush and his three separate betrayals of the Kurds...nasty business, that.

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NO! GRRR! SNARL! HISS! SNAP! SCREAM! FLAME! ROAR!...

...oh, all right.

[J. J.]

Why can't we use this thread for something productive, like running down the French?

:-)

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Withdrawing from the world and letting you all deal with the consequences of your own actions is hardly jingoistic. Quite the reverse.

If only it could be done.  It would be really nice if we could do it, but until Europe wakes up and is willing to fight this war, we have no choice.

I'm glad we have an administration that isn't going to wait for a mushroom cloud to get serious.  Hence my endorsement of Bush on Individual Politics.

[WMS]

Withdrawing from the world and letting you all deal with the consequences of your own actions is hardly jingoistic. Quite the reverse.

If only it could be done.  It would be really nice if we could do it, but until Europe wakes up and is willing to fight this war, we have no choice.

I'm glad we have an administration that isn't going to wait for a mushroom cloud to get serious.  Hence my endorsement of Bush on Individual Politics.

One can dream, ya know...

I read it - very interesting! Did you look at the thread where I posted my actual vote? I have an explanation for all my votes...

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=10996.15

You might have convinced me to change my vote if you hadn't waited so long...not definitely, but maybe.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

There is one group of terrorists from whom we see this again, and again, and again: radical Islamic terrorists.

And radical Loyalist, Republican, Basque...

Well, just because there are other groups that are also bad doesn't detract from my point: radical Islam is the source of unspeakable hatred and disregard for human dignity.  We see the same theme over and over again: Sudan, Chechnya, Kashmir, Serbia, Indonesia... NONE of these places has anything to do with the United States, Israel, or Western "imperialism."  What all of these places have in common is radical Islam's desire to take over the world and subject it to Taliban-style absolute religious rule, strictly adhering to the Koran.  They hate all "infidels" and believe that any means to accomplish the spreading of the faith is justified by Allah.  Any sane liberal person, whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, or atheist, should abhor this, and should be doing everything in his power to stop it.