Guardian writer calls for Bush assassination..

[khirkhib]

That isn't a defense that is a distraction.  All I said was that I don't think we should use insults on the boards.  Is that a horrible thing to say?

[shankbear]

Big SecretaryAl got the kindest remarks that I could ever muster for the Guardian reporter censored from this site.  Oh, I only learned those phrases from a British friend of mine in Lincolnshire.

[freedomburns]

You know, after I think about it, this is pretty fu__ing outrageous.  I love the Guardian, but this is going too far.


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[??????????]

I don't think Yankee and Limey are parallel words.
I would get in a huff whenever people in the DR called me a Gringo though.  They didn't know it was an insult and I told them the history of the word and that I would perfer that they not use the term. I don't want to sound like my skin is so soft that I can't take even the slightest barb but you were using the word to insult him.  If you look through the thread you were the instigator.  Sure you probably don't care but I don't think we need to drop our discourse to insults.

Gringo is offensive? All the Mexicans down here call each other that. lol

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1. The use of the word "limey" does not offend me (other than the fact that my family has never had anything to do with the Navy and wants to keep things that way).
This is what Shankbear said: "and he too is a limey, tea swilling, crumpet munching, boy buggering, lunatic fringe feckless crapweasel"
Hmm... y'know I think that *is* racist (and to Goldie: what do you define a race as? Do certain biogical things make black people inferior to white people? As you like Duke, Le Pen and Griffin I guess the answer is yes)

2. O.K, o.k maybe calling Goldie a Nazi was going to far. Fascist is certainly accurate... segregationist probably is as well...

3. I think Goldie has a serious attitude problem. According to him everyone and anyone who disagrees with him is variously "Stupid, Mentally Ill, [a] Freak, Asshole or Miseducated". There's probably a few words I've missed.

4. I complain about racists and xenophobes over here as well (for the record I handed out Anti-BNP leaflets at a local council by-election a few months back. Goldie will see this as evidence that I am a "Commie". I was also disgusted at how well the Xenophobes did in the Euro Elections this year)

5. I can't remember what to put here. Oh well. Ah... yes... Khirkhib's right: insults are bad

[Democratic Hawk]

You know, after I think about it, this is pretty fu__ing outrageous.  I love the Guardian, but this is going too far.


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I agree. I'm enjoying The Guardian as far as the US elections go, but this was over-the-top.

Dave

[Democratic Hawk]

British people crying racism and xenophobe...that's rich.

Meaning?

Dave

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Screw 'em.

Let's elect Kerry (or better yet, Badnarik), and crawl back into our nice, isolationist shell.  We can spend our entire military budget on keeping the terrorist bastards off our soil (maybe divert a good chunk to Israel so that they can do the same), and let the rest of the world deal with the problem themselves, if they're so keen on seeing the US out of world affairs.

Eventually, they will see that the civilized world is faced with being overrun by barbarians with no respect for human dignity, and whose goal is the Talibanization of the world.  Then maybe, 15 years from now, when all of North Africa, the Middle East, Greater Persia, Central Asia, Turkey, half of the Balkans, the Sudan, and the Phillipines are run by Taliban regimes, where women are forced into burkas and treated like property, and people get their hands cut off for stealing ... Taliban regimes with Nuclear F**king Weapons ... maybe then Europe will wake up, get their heads out of the sand, and DO something about this, rather than b*tching and moaning that the US are the only ones that want to deal with the problem.  Of course, by then, they'll be looking at WWIII, but that's not our problem.  We'll be "stronger at home, more respected abroad."  Or, at least, "stronger at home."

You may think I'm joking, but I'm serious.  I'm tired of the US and a handful of other heads of government being the only ones who want to handle the greatest threat facing the world since Hitler, and the rest of the civilized world acting like we're a bunch of rotten imperialist meanies for keeping them safe.  Until the rest of the world decides to take responsibility for global security, I say let's resign our commission as the World Police.

[WMS]

Screw 'em.

Let's elect Kerry (or better yet, Badnarik), and crawl back into our nice, isolationist shell.  We can spend our entire military budget on keeping the terrorist bastards off our soil (maybe divert a good chunk to Israel so that they can do the same), and let the rest of the world deal with the problem themselves, if they're so keen on seeing the US out of world affairs.

Eventually, they will see that the civilized world is faced with being overrun by barbarians with no respect for human dignity, and whose goal is the Talibanization of the world.  Then maybe, 15 years from now, when all of North Africa, the Middle East, Greater Persia, Central Asia, Turkey, half of the Balkans, the Sudan, and the Phillipines are run by Taliban regimes, where women are forced into burkas and treated like property, and people get their hands cut off for stealing ... Taliban regimes with Nuclear F**king Weapons ... maybe then Europe will wake up, get their heads out of the sand, and DO something about this, rather than b*tching and moaning that the US are the only ones that want to deal with the problem.  Of course, by then, they'll be looking at WWIII, but that's not our problem.  We'll be "stronger at home, more respected abroad."  Or, at least, "stronger at home."

You may think I'm joking, but I'm serious.  I'm tired of the US and a handful of other heads of government being the only ones who want to handle the greatest threat facing the world since Hitler, and the rest of the civilized world acting like we're a bunch of rotten imperialist meanies for keeping them safe.  Until the rest of the world decides to take responsibility for global security, I say let's resign our commission as the World Police.

Preach it, brother. I too have grown very weary of the idiotic anti-Americanism I've seen in Europe. What planet are they on, anyway?

[shankbear]

I say assassinate the reporter for The Guardian.  Oh sorry, just humor.  Woops!!!  Kings X.  Take backs.  Sarcasm.  HaHa.  That's the lame excuse The Guardian came back with after they were busted on the stupid reporter's remarks.

Hey Brits out there....when did your country last have a leader assassinated while in office?

[patrick1]

British people crying racism and xenophobe...that's rich.

Meaning?

Dave

Just found it funny/ironic that citizens of the land that brought us the white man's burden are shouting xenophobe.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Screw 'em.

Let's elect Kerry (or better yet, Badnarik), and crawl back into our nice, isolationist shell.  We can spend our entire military budget on keeping the terrorist bastards off our soil (maybe divert a good chunk to Israel so that they can do the same), and let the rest of the world deal with the problem themselves, if they're so keen on seeing the US out of world affairs.

Eventually, they will see that the civilized world is faced with being overrun by barbarians with no respect for human dignity, and whose goal is the Talibanization of the world.  Then maybe, 15 years from now, when all of North Africa, the Middle East, Greater Persia, Central Asia, Turkey, half of the Balkans, the Sudan, and the Phillipines are run by Taliban regimes, where women are forced into burkas and treated like property, and people get their hands cut off for stealing ... Taliban regimes with Nuclear F**king Weapons ... maybe then Europe will wake up, get their heads out of the sand, and DO something about this, rather than b*tching and moaning that the US are the only ones that want to deal with the problem.  Of course, by then, they'll be looking at WWIII, but that's not our problem.  We'll be "stronger at home, more respected abroad."  Or, at least, "stronger at home."

You may think I'm joking, but I'm serious.  I'm tired of the US and a handful of other heads of government being the only ones who want to handle the greatest threat facing the world since Hitler, and the rest of the civilized world acting like we're a bunch of rotten imperialist meanies for keeping them safe.  Until the rest of the world decides to take responsibility for global security, I say let's resign our commission as the World Police.

Preach it, brother. I too have grown very weary of the idiotic anti-Americanism I've seen in Europe. What planet are they on, anyway?

The same one as you two. Just because someone has different views (besides, I think there's a slight possibility that the U.S.S.R was more dangerous than a bunch of neurotic wierdo's with bombs. Not to devalue the terrorist threat y'understand, but over here terrorism is something we've had to get used to. IRA bombings in Manchester/Brighton/London, UVF/UDA/Etc. bombings in Dublin, Sectarian killings in Belfast/Londerry [a compromise. I'm a neutral over the NI/Ulster mess and writing Londonderry/Derry or alternating the two gets annoying very quickly. Besides it's how bureaucrats name councils an stuff... and if it's insulting at least I'm insulting both sides equally], ETA in Spain, Corsican nutters in France, various weirdos in every bloody other country...
I'm not defending knee-jerk anti-americanism. I think it's stupid. However so is knee-jerk anti-europeanism and knee-jerk islamophobia.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

British people crying racism and xenophobe...that's rich.

Meaning?

Dave

Just found it funny/ironic that citizens of the land that brought us the white man's burden are shouting xenophobe.

But at the time of imperalist, xenophobic, racist, capitalist bastardish, morons were running the U.K none of my ancestors could vote, and many were working down pits when they were little kids.

[AuH2O]

British people crying racism and xenophobe...that's rich.

Meaning?

Dave

Just found it funny/ironic that citizens of the land that brought us the white man's burden are shouting xenophobe.

But at the time of imperalist, xenophobic, racist, capitalist bastardish, morons were running the U.K none of my ancestors could vote, and many were working down pits when they were little kids.

Back when Britain actually mattered in the world...

[minionofmidas]

The same one as you two.

I don't. Mine is much closer to this solar system than theirs.

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Although none of these is as dangerous (as opposed to as reprehensible) as knee-jerk jingoism.

[patrick1]

British people crying racism and xenophobe...that's rich.

Meaning?

Dave

Just found it funny/ironic that citizens of the land that brought us the white man's burden are shouting xenophobe.

But at the time of imperalist, xenophobic, racist, capitalist bastardish, morons were running the U.K none of my ancestors could vote, and many were working down pits when they were little kids.

Very true.  March of history I suppose.

[Silent Hunter]

Al made a good point. We are used to terrorism in the UK.

Speaking of terrorism, there have been NO terrorist attacks in the UK mainland since March 2001 (outside the BBC, no-one hurt, Real IRA responsible) and no one killed in a bombing since 1999.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Speaking of terrorism, there have been NO terrorist attacks in the UK mainland since March 2001 (outside the BBC, no-one hurt, Real IRA responsible) and no one killed in a bombing since 1999.

Yes... most strange... the Coppers seem to be preventing Terrorist attacks... not normal...

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Preach it, brother. I too have grown very weary of the idiotic anti-Americanism I've seen in Europe. What planet are they on, anyway?

The anti-Americanism is really a secondary issue.  They can hate on the US all they want.  My self-esteem is not dependent upon what other countries think of my own.

The issue that I'm on about is that no one else in the world wants to do anything about the problem of global terror, or even acknowledge that we have a problem.  It's not a US problem, or an Israeli problem.  It's a world problem.  And it's partially Western Europe's fault that it's come to this.  It's a holdover from the colonial age, in which the nations of Europe took over governance of most of the Third World, stole their resources, and left them to fall into despotism.  That's a lot of the trouble right there.  So I see the US as cleaning up after the mess that Europe made.  The fact that Europe then scorns us for doing it is insult added to injury, but it's not mainly what bothers me.

So, if they don't like us making the world safer, why not withdraw everywhere, turtle ourselves, and let the rest of the world work out this problem on their own?

Of course, now that Russia has seen first hand the full ugliness and horror of Islamo-fascism, Putin has finally come around.  I hope that other world leaders do as well, and that it doesn't take more mangled schoolchildren to get the point across.  :-(

[WMS]

[snipped for space]

The same one as you two. Just because someone has different views (besides, I think there's a slight possibility that the U.S.S.R was more dangerous than a bunch of neurotic wierdo's with bombs. Not to devalue the terrorist threat y'understand, but over here terrorism is something we've had to get used to. IRA bombings in Manchester/Brighton/London, UVF/UDA/Etc. bombings in Dublin, Sectarian killings in Belfast/Londerry [a compromise. I'm a neutral over the NI/Ulster mess and writing Londonderry/Derry or alternating the two gets annoying very quickly. Besides it's how bureaucrats name councils an stuff... and if it's insulting at least I'm insulting both sides equally], ETA in Spain, Corsican nutters in France, various weirdos in every bloody other country...
I'm not defending knee-jerk anti-americanism. I think it's stupid. However so is knee-jerk anti-europeanism and knee-jerk islamophobia.

Nice point about how y'all are used to terrorism. And thanks for your polite response (the response by the other person, on the other hand...). I don't think neither Beef nor I were engaging in knee-jerk anti-europeanism or knee-jerk islamophobia, but rather a mix of isolationism and nationalism. I'll get into this more in my reply to Lewis, but I don't think most of Europe - and certainly not the EU government - really gets how seriously the U.S. feels about the war on radical Islam. I also think they go out of their way to engage in American-bashing just because they want to undercut American power. And I think that a lot of the anti-war opposition to the U.S. is more than a little opportunistic and hypocritical.
As for Islam, I'll mention that in my other reply.

And Northern Ireland is just a mess.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Not to devalue the terrorist threat y'understand, but over here terrorism is something we've had to get used to. IRA bombings in Manchester/Brighton/London, UVF/UDA/Etc. bombings in Dublin, Sectarian killings in Belfast/Londerry [a compromise. I'm a neutral over the NI/Ulster mess and writing Londonderry/Derry or alternating the two gets annoying very quickly. Besides it's how bureaucrats name councils an stuff... and if it's insulting at least I'm insulting both sides equally], ETA in Spain, Corsican nutters in France, various weirdos in every bloody other country...

The IRA and related separatist/nationalist type terrorists, dispicable as they are, do not target children.  They do not take schools hostage and terrorize, murder and mutilate children.  They do not decapitate relief workers on video.  They do not attempt to maximize civilian deaths with their acts of terror.  They do not believe that any who stand in the way of their mission of spreading their ideology of hate across the world must, by divine commandment, be killed.

There is one group of terrorists from whom we see this again, and again, and again: radical Islamic terrorists.

I'm not defending knee-jerk anti-americanism. I think it's stupid. However so is knee-jerk anti-europeanism and knee-jerk islamophobia.

No one here, apart from maybe StatesRights, is saying that all Musilms are bad people.  We're talking about radical Islam.  That's like saying someone is a Christanophobe if he thinks it's deplorable when radical Christians blow up abortion clinics and that they need to be stopped.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

And Northern Ireland is just a mess.

I thought things had been pretty peaceful since Good Friday.  Is there still violence?

[WMS]

Your turn, Lewis.

The same one as you two.

I don't. Mine is much closer to this solar system than theirs.

Ah, would this be the planet where everything bad is the fault of the U.S. and George Bush, and where there were no ugly little realities like the criminal complicity of a lot of the anti-war countries and groups in the world in the supercorrupt oil-for-food UN program? How many Iraqi babies died because of the failure of the UN to see that the money from this program went to the Iraqi people? No, wait, it's all the fault of the U.S., right? Or where a lot of those same countries did everything they could to remove the sanctions from Iraq in order so that they could get going on all those illegal oilfield contracts they had secretly singed with Saddam's government? The French, the Chinese, the Russians, the Malaysians, and I do believe even the Germans? No, wait, it's only the U.S. that does stuff like that. Or is this the planet where tens of thousands (or more) of European lefties will demonstrate against the U.S., but not a peep over Saddam's gassing the Kurds, or Saddam's scorched earth campaign against the Marsh Arabs, or Saddam's sons fun pastime of feeding people through shredders and dunking people in acid baths? No, wait, it's only the U.S. who commits atrocities.

No one does bad things except the U.S. in your world, huh Lewis? Is this the world you're talking about?

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Although none of these is as dangerous (as opposed to as reprehensible) as knee-jerk jingoism.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Anti-europeanism I dealt with in my response to Al. Now, as for Islam, this is for you, Niles Caulder, and anyone else who reads this: I took every ing class on Islam and the Middle East my university offered, so don't you accuse me of being some dimwitted bigot. No, Islam is not the enemy. But yes, a sizable chunk of it is utterly hostile to the West and is determined to beat us at all costs. That's reality, not islamophobia. Considering how many Muslims cheered on 9/11, I'd say the U.S. has acted with great restraint in this war, considering what we could have done if we were really as bad as you think we are. And I find it ironic that the secular left is trying to lecture the U.S. about Islam, given that Muslims are considerably less secular than the most ardent evangelical Christian. You'll encounter that soon enough.

Knee-jerk jingoism? If you think what Beef and I have said is that, then you have absolutely no knowledge of U.S. culture. What we said comes from the isolationist-nationalist thread in U.S. society, not the imperialist pipe dreams or the internationalist idiocies of certain political elites, and is a lot closer to the mainstream of American thought that you probably want to think. Withdrawing from the world and letting you all deal with the consequences of your own actions is hardly jingoistic. Quite the reverse.

[WMS]

Preach it, brother. I too have grown very weary of the idiotic anti-Americanism I've seen in Europe. What planet are they on, anyway?

The anti-Americanism is really a secondary issue.  They can hate on the US all they want.  My self-esteem is not dependent upon what other countries think of my own.

The issue that I'm on about is that no one else in the world wants to do anything about the problem of global terror, or even acknowledge that we have a problem.  It's not a US problem, or an Israeli problem.  It's a world problem.  And it's partially Western Europe's fault that it's come to this.  It's a holdover from the colonial age, in which the nations of Europe took over governance of most of the Third World, stole their resources, and left them to fall into despotism.  That's a lot of the trouble right there.  So I see the US as cleaning up after the mess that Europe made.  The fact that Europe then scorns us for doing it is insult added to injury, but it's not mainly what bothers me.

So, if they don't like us making the world safer, why not withdraw everywhere, turtle ourselves, and let the rest of the world work out this problem on their own?

Of course, now that Russia has seen first hand the full ugliness and horror of Islamo-fascism, Putin has finally come around.  I hope that other world leaders do as well, and that it doesn't take more mangled schoolchildren to get the point across.  :-(

Paragraph 1: Nice shot.
Paragraph 2: Interesting point. If it hadn't been for the Sykes-Picot Agreement, maybe the Middle East wouldn't be so screwed up...
Paragraph 3: Fine by me. These past few years of war have certainly demonstrated to me that the world is quite willing to let the U.S. hang. Let's return the favor.
Paragraph 4: We can hope...although I am not optimistic.

[WMS]

And Northern Ireland is just a mess.

I thought things had been pretty peaceful since Good Friday.  Is there still violence?

Nothing much that ever reaches the news...but on the other hand, the rise of the DUP and Sein Fein is not encouraging. Neither is their failure to finally, definitively end that stupid war.