Should Prostitution Be Legalized?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't really see what the alternative is.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, but not for moral reasons. Pretty much all the research I've come across points towards legalization being a failure. There has been no significant decrease at all in terms of trafficking in countries like australia or the netherlands, actually the opposite. I do think that putting women in jail for prostitution is asinine though.

Should people like Eliot Spitzer also go to jail? Should there be sting operations against high class escorts who obviously aren't like that?

(Yes I know he didn't, but that's because the burden of proof for such a case is extremely high and anyone needs to be basically caught in the act. Even if he was he still obviously wasn't dealing with trafficking victims.)

Anyway the law like in Canada would solve all this...

[fezzyfestoon]

I'm with BRTD on this one, make it legal, but keep busting streetwalkers.  There should be some regulation there, but I'd prefer if it was above the board SELF regulated like doctors and electricians not state regulated like teachers and pilots.

Eh, I'm not so sure this would regulate itself very well.  Too much power in the pimps.  Doctors and electricians are more independent while prostitutes are often controlled.  Of course, there could just be safety measures in place to make sure abuse doesn't happen and safety is kept a priority.  Amsterdam has some good lessons to be learned as does Nevada.

Out of all Amsterdam's 8,000 to 11,000 prostitutes, more than 75% are from Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia according to a former prostitute who produced a report about the sex trade in Amsterdam, in 2008. Le Monde in 1997 found that 80% of prostitutes in the Netherlands were foreigners and 70% had no immigration papers. Recent reports in general indicate that the problem has worsened, not improved and the same has been found in countries like Australia too. Why? Because the number of native girls who want to enter the trade and go through the hassle of registration are small and the demand is high. Now admittedly, it might be less of a problem if we had much stronger border control, but...

Right, lessons to be learned.  Not always a lesson of what to do.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yes.

[Earth]

Absolutely. Streetwalking, brothel, private prostitution, all of it.

[opebo]

sure but it i just such a dirty sad 'job' to be doing.

No actually its more fun than average.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Absolutely. Streetwalking, brothel, private prostitution, all of it.

[Phony Moderate]

Yes.

[Psychic Octopus]

Yes, but regulate and keep in brothels.

[opebo]

Yes, but regulate and keep in brothels.

Ok, so what's your punishment for a girl freelancing?

[perdedor]

I do not understand why it should be illegal to do something for money that is perfectly legal to do for free. Should we also illegalize swinging and free sex?

[Mint]

No, but not for moral reasons. Pretty much all the research I've come across points towards legalization being a failure. There has been no significant decrease at all in terms of trafficking in countries like australia or the netherlands, actually the opposite. I do think that putting women in jail for prostitution is asinine though.

Should people like Eliot Spitzer also go to jail? Should there be sting operations against high class escorts who obviously aren't like that?

(Yes I know he didn't, but that's because the burden of proof for such a case is extremely high and anyone needs to be basically caught in the act. Even if he was he still obviously wasn't dealing with trafficking victims.)

Anyway the law like in Canada would solve all this...

Spitzer should be in prison because of his position, but I don't think it makes sense to put prostitutes in jail. At most have some sort of treatment or relocation program depending on circumstances. My main problem with this is honestly how it's worked in practice in areas that have legalized it (re: large black market still). Give me counter examples and maybe I'll change my mind.

[Franzl]

Mint, you've explained that legalization has not solved problems associated with prostitution.....but how is that an argument against legalization per se?

In my opinion....if you want to limit personal freedom, there should be something negative associated with that freedom that justifies prohibiting it to keep people safe.

[Mint]

Mint, you've explained that legalization has not solved problems associated with prostitution.....but how is that an argument against legalization per se?

If people are going to make claims regarding harm reduction and how regulating and licensing brothels will reduce organized crime, then we should be examining the actual effects on nations that have done so. I see nothing good to have come out of the areas where it's been legalized other than perhaps less transmission of disease (and only the prostitutes are tested, not clients).

Even putting aside the issue of trafficking, Amsterdam is actually attempting to scale back their red light district because of the negative impact it's had on their economy and reputation. In the areas where prostitution is legal in Nevada, it too is not seen positively (in fact the ban on advertising for those services was only recently lifted) and many sources maintain that pimping is a serious problem in a lot of these supposedly safe and humane brothels (e.g. Alexa Albert; Oregon police - and that's just the stuff you can find on wikipedia I'm sure I could get plenty of other studies from my texts if I was inclined to).

[Franzl]

Alright, but I still don't see why prostitution has to be illegal. If brothels are the problem, alright, then just don't grant business licenses....but why should it be a crime for a person to pay for sex?

[Beet]

Agreed. The reason why feminists are not pushing legalization more strongly is because of the problems Mint mentioned. It's the same kind of problem that Los Angeles was facing with marijuana shops. Any time you decriminalize a borderline criminal activity is only invites more. When there's a silo of legal prostitution, a nest of illegal cousins and other illegal activities soon spring up. That's been the Netherlands' experience.

Nicholas Kristoff and Sheryl WuDunn have also come out against legalization on practical grounds. Their experience in third world countries is that crackdowns end up being more humane because anything else is ineffective.

The Swedish model of criminalizing johns only has shown a lot more promise and has reduced prostitution significantly.

[true liberty]

yes but not with idiotic taxation...

[Free Palestine]

sure but it i just such a dirty sad 'job' to be doing.

No actually its more fun than average.

You watch too many porn movies.

[Psychic Octopus]

Yes, but regulate and keep in brothels.

Ok, so what's your punishment for a girl freelancing?

Must be done in a certain section of the city, ala Red Light District a night in jail if attempted in a neighborhood.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, but not for moral reasons. Pretty much all the research I've come across points towards legalization being a failure. There has been no significant decrease at all in terms of trafficking in countries like australia or the netherlands, actually the opposite. I do think that putting women in jail for prostitution is asinine though.

Should people like Eliot Spitzer also go to jail? Should there be sting operations against high class escorts who obviously aren't like that?

(Yes I know he didn't, but that's because the burden of proof for such a case is extremely high and anyone needs to be basically caught in the act. Even if he was he still obviously wasn't dealing with trafficking victims.)

Anyway the law like in Canada would solve all this...

Spitzer should be in prison because of his position, but I don't think it makes sense to put prostitutes in jail. At most have some sort of treatment or relocation program depending on circumstances. My main problem with this is honestly how it's worked in practice in areas that have legalized it (re: large black market still). Give me counter examples and maybe I'll change my mind.

In Canada prostitution is not specifically banned. Brothels, pimping, streetwalking and all associated activities are, but it's not illegal to simply trade sex for money. This means that all the abuses can be enforced against while not infringing on ones' privacy and ridiculously micromanaging restrictions on one's sexual behavior.

And yes, it probably is true that the vast majority of prostitution in Canada is illegal anyway, but that's kind of beside the point, even if 90% of an activity is "bad", it's still illogical to crack down on the other 10% as well. Not everything has to be insanely black and white, just like it's not a huge deal if you don't get a ticket for going 57mph in a 55mph zone. If Canada isn't wasting their resources targeting people engaging in prostitution where there is no massive abuse or exploitation and not using the blatant entrapment often required I don't see any downsides.

[k-onmmunist]

That's how the system works in Britain too, except if you pay for it with more than one woman, it's a criminal offence.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Yes. Partly on the grounds rarely mentioned that it would help women re-access into 'the system' and help them find more suitable forms of employment (the first person to say, yes I suspect it will be Opebo, that most women choose to prostitution is going to get a very large internet boot in the face).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's how the system works in Britain too, except if you pay for it with more than one woman, it's a criminal offence.

Yes, its solicitation thats illegal. Although, in practice, the police have such a [CENSORED] which might explain why they prefer to crack down on brothels more than kerb-crawlers.

[minionofmidas]

Yes. Partly on the grounds rarely mentioned that it would help women re-access into 'the system' and help them find more suitable forms of employment (the first person to say, yes I suspect it will be Opebo, that most women choose to prostitution is going to get a very large internet boot in the face).

Most women working in the industry did choose to.
Whether they would have if they'd had a clearer view of the working conditions is a different matter entirely.

And most do get out again reasonably quickly. Without help from the Government.
I am, of course, once again talking only of conditions in brothels in Western Europe. That's the part I'm knowledgeable about.

One other angle needs to be mentioned - one other reason why the industry prefers the current state of affairs to anything that could be called normalcy.
Normalcy would involve paying taxes.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Yes. Partly on the grounds rarely mentioned that it would help women re-access into 'the system' and help them find more suitable forms of employment (the first person to say, yes I suspect it will be Opebo, that most women choose to prostitution is going to get a very large internet boot in the face).

Most women working in the industry did choose to.
Whether they would have if they'd had a clearer view of the working conditions is a different matter entirely.

And most do get out again reasonably quickly. Without help from the Government.
I am, of course, once again talking only of conditions in brothels in Western Europe. That's the part I'm knowledgeable about.

One other angle needs to be mentioned - one other reason why the industry prefers the current state of affairs to anything that could be called normalcy.
Normalcy would involve paying taxes.

Yeah, but in which circumstances was that choice made. That's what is crucial surely even if they did choose to.