Utah, 1960

[Bo]

Why did JFK win over 45% of the vote in Utah in 1960? I know it was extremely close in many states, but Utah? Utah is one of the most Republican states in the nation for the last several decades? Were things different before in Utah? Did Mormons in Utah consider Nixon to be too liberal on defense? Does anyone have any explanations for me about this?

[phk]

Well I suppose both Mormons and Catholics are minorities in a certain sense.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Yes, but it was not one of the most Republican in 1960. In fact, in went Democratic from 1932-1948.

[useful idiot]

It also went Democrat in 1964 obviously. It has a lot to do with Mormon culture, and at that point had almost nothing to do with defense. The shift towards being a solidly Republican state didn't start until Nixon....

[Bo]

It also went Democrat in 1964 obviously. It has a lot to do with Mormon culture, and at that point had almost nothing to do with defense. The shift towards being a solidly Republican state didn't start until Nixon....

I know about 1964, but 1964 was a landslide election. 1960 was pretty close. By the way, I asked about Nixon being weak on defense because recently Utah likes its candidates very conservative, at least lately. Thus, defense was really the only issue Nixon was to Kennedy's left in 1960, and thus I thought maybe some conservative Mormons decided to vote for JFK because they thought Nixon was too liberal for them. I guess Utah was more liberal in 1964 and before, as it voted for FDR and Truman all the times they ran for President (1932-1948), as ShadowOfTheWave previously mentioned. I guess that's why JFK won over 45% of the vote in Utah in 1960.

[useful idiot]

It also went Democrat in 1964 obviously. It has a lot to do with Mormon culture, and at that point had almost nothing to do with defense. The shift towards being a solidly Republican state didn't start until Nixon....

I know about 1964, but 1964 was a landslide election. 1960 was pretty close. By the way, I asked about Nixon being weak on defense because recently Utah likes its candidates very conservative, at least lately. Thus, defense was really the only issue Nixon was to Kennedy's left in 1960, and thus I thought maybe some conservative Mormons decided to vote for JFK because they thought Nixon was too liberal for them. I guess Utah was more liberal in 1964 and before, as it voted for FDR and Truman all the times they ran for President (1932-1948), as ShadowOfTheWave previously mentioned. I guess that's why JFK won over 45% of the vote in Utah in 1960.

Utah's shift towards the Republican Party had far more to do with posturing and image than it did with policy. Since the presidency of David O. McKay the goal of the LDS church has been to become as American as possible; more American than Americans.

With the rise of identity politics in the 1960's, people began to associate themselves with their particular "group". Diaspora communities (African Americans, Italians, Irish-Americans, Jews, and a host of other more recent immigrants) could identify with an overseas community from which they could draw traditions and customs. Their history was wrapped up in a narrative that reached back further than the United States itself. Although many of these groups voted Democratic before, increasingly after the 1960s they began to see the Democrats as protecting their interests.

The Mormons were a homegrown subculture, however they were often seen as being un-American due to their history of isolation(which, ironically, was a result of their persecution within the U.S.). In the 1950's the LDS leadership dramatically changed their outlook in order to insure their survival as a group. For the most part the new leadership was removed from the pre-statehood days when there was mass antipathy towards the American government. In order to push their members into the mainstream they embarked on a modernization process: beards, which had been ubiquitous before due to missionaries growing them in order to appear older, became frowned upon, missionary activity was increased dramatically, and converts were discouraged from moving to the inter-mountain West upon becoming members. Prior to the late 60s the Democratic Party had yet to embrace the counter-culture and identity groups, and so Mormon voting patterns weren't effected; Mormons voted their politics, without any input from the leadership.

During and after the mid to late 60s though, Mormons were beginning to find it hard to locate their place in an American society that was rapidly changing. They didn't have an overseas community to identify with, they were just Americans. Republicans positioned themselves as the party of traditional America(religious devotion, the family, and traditions such as reliance on non-governmental structures). To become mainstream most Mormons felt they had to ally themselves with the conservative movement; they didn't want to be viewed as being the same as the counter culture or immigrants as they'd been seen as "different" for so long and it hadn't worked out for them. It was a rejection of their uniqueness in a play for survival. (Now there was also a lot of internal politics within the church structure going on at this time, which I could go into further if you wanted, but I'm providing a more broad picture.)

This, in my opinion, was a mistake in some ways but not in others. It was based in the notion that they wouldn't be accepted for being different, which is almost kind of antiquated and outdated, but at the same time we see that it still rings true. Now whether modern bigotry towards Mormons is more a result of their differences from the mainstream, or as a result of their alliance with more conservative forms of Christianity, is still kind of an open question. Undoubtedly from their uneasy allies on the right we see more of the former, and from the left we see more of the latter. Mormons, in the conventional sense, aren't nearly as conservative as most evangelicals. They don't view devotion to their church in the same way non-Mormons do. When Mormons are religious, that means they're committed to a culture, way of life, and family structure; it doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with theology. Mormons are generally more liberal on the issue of abortion than evangelicals and definitely more liberal than the official stance of the RCC(the LDS church is officially pro-stem cell research, and has no opposition to birth control), aren't young earth creationists(and in fact their theology supports something similar to the big bang theory), and have traditionally been far more receptive to female empowerment(one of the first states to have suffrage, have always encouraged education for women, and have been way more sexually open, although not permissive obviously, than other traditional Christian groups). Liberal critics of the Church, in my mind, put far too much weight on theological quirks within Mormon doctrine that don't really have much to do with how Mormons live their lives at all. I think a lot of the Church's opposition to the ERA was an effort to curry favor with the conservative movement in general, and it's one of the things I really hold against the Church. Most of their opposition to SS marriage initiatives has been a similar attempt, in my opinion, another which I disagree with.

Utah is in a very conservative part of country, regardless of religion, so that comes into play as well and people often don't acknowledge that. Mormons aren't a huge percentage of the population in Wyoming, which is still as conservative. People look at Utah and I think they place way too much emphasis on the Church's influence. Undoubtedly Mormons in Utah are more Republican than non-Mormons, but that has a lot to do with the identity politics of being a minority in the state for non-members. Most non-Mormons in Utah are Hispanic Catholics, evangelicals, or non-religious. Funnily enough, a lot of the evangelicals in Utah are Democrats, a main reason being that they are a minority and the majority, a majority they oppose vociferously, is generally Republican. Hispanics and non-religious people tend to be Democrats anyway. So when someone looks at the political demographics in Utah and they see that the Mormons are voting Republican and everyone else is voting Democrat, they make the mistake of thinking that the Church is somehow telling people how to vote. In reality, it is the non-Mormons who are generally voting according to religion; merely their opposition to one.

I've spent a lot of time with Mormons in the South, and more often than not they're Democrats, because they have to put up with the evangelical establishment in the Bible Belt and feel excluded from it. Another factor in Mormons voting Republican outside of the inter-mountain West, however, is income. The LDS Church places a HUGE emphasis on education; most white Mormons are educated. The culture of the Church encourages people into careers in engineering and the sciences. They tend to be fairly upper middle class because of this.

If you want any more elaboration feel free to ask, this post has gone on for way too long...

[War on Want]

It also went Democrat in 1964 obviously. It has a lot to do with Mormon culture, and at that point had almost nothing to do with defense. The shift towards being a solidly Republican state didn't start until Nixon....

I know about 1964, but 1964 was a landslide election. 1960 was pretty close. By the way, I asked about Nixon being weak on defense because recently Utah likes its candidates very conservative, at least lately. Thus, defense was really the only issue Nixon was to Kennedy's left in 1960, and thus I thought maybe some conservative Mormons decided to vote for JFK because they thought Nixon was too liberal for them. I guess Utah was more liberal in 1964 and before, as it voted for FDR and Truman all the times they ran for President (1932-1948), as ShadowOfTheWave previously mentioned. I guess that's why JFK won over 45% of the vote in Utah in 1960.

Utah's shift towards the Republican Party had far more to do with posturing and image than it did with policy. Since the presidency of David O. McKay the goal of the LDS church has been to become as American as possible; more American than Americans.

With the rise of identity politics in the 1960's, people began to associate themselves with their particular "group". Diaspora communities (African Americans, Italians, Irish-Americans, Jews, and a host of other more recent immigrants) could identify with an overseas community from which they could draw traditions and customs. Their history was wrapped up in a narrative that reached back further than the United States itself. Although many of these groups voted Democratic before, increasingly after the 1960s they began to see the Democrats as protecting their interests.

The Mormons were a homegrown subculture, however they were often seen as being un-American due to their history of isolation(which, ironically, was a result of their persecution within the U.S.). In the 1950's the LDS leadership dramatically changed their outlook in order to insure their survival as a group. For the most part the new leadership was removed from the pre-statehood days when there was mass antipathy towards the American government. In order to push their members into the mainstream they embarked on a modernization process: beards, which had been ubiquitous before due to missionaries growing them in order to appear older, became frowned upon, missionary activity was increased dramatically, and converts were discouraged from moving to the inter-mountain West upon becoming members. Prior to the late 60s the Democratic Party had yet to embrace the counter-culture and identity groups, and so Mormon voting patterns weren't effected; Mormons voted their politics, without any input from the leadership.

During and after the mid to late 60s though, Mormons were beginning to find it hard to locate their place in an American society that was rapidly changing. They didn't have an overseas community to identify with, they were just Americans. Republicans positioned themselves as the party of traditional America(religious devotion, the family, and traditions such as reliance on non-governmental structures). To become mainstream most Mormons felt they had to ally themselves with the conservative movement; they didn't want to be viewed as being the same as the counter culture or immigrants as they'd been seen as "different" for so long and it hadn't worked out for them. It was a rejection of their uniqueness in a play for survival. (Now there was also a lot of internal politics within the church structure going on at this time, which I could go into further if you wanted, but I'm providing a more broad picture.)

This, in my opinion, was a mistake in some ways but not in others. It was based in the notion that they wouldn't be accepted for being different, which is almost kind of antiquated and outdated, but at the same time we see that it still rings true. Now whether modern bigotry towards Mormons is more a result of their differences from the mainstream, or as a result of their alliance with more conservative forms of Christianity, is still kind of an open question. Undoubtedly from their uneasy allies on the right we see more of the former, and from the left we see more of the latter. Mormons, in the conventional sense, aren't nearly as conservative as most evangelicals. They don't view devotion to their church in the same way non-Mormons do. When Mormons are religious, that means they're committed to a culture, way of life, and family structure; it doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with theology. Mormons are generally more liberal on the issue of abortion than evangelicals and definitely more liberal than the official stance of the RCC(the LDS church is officially pro-stem cell research, and has no opposition to birth control), aren't young earth creationists(and in fact their theology supports something similar to the big bang theory), and have traditionally been far more receptive to female empowerment(one of the first states to have suffrage, have always encouraged education for women, and have been way more sexually open, although not permissive obviously, than other traditional Christian groups). Liberal critics of the Church, in my mind, put far too much weight on theological quirks within Mormon doctrine that don't really have much to do with how Mormons live their lives at all. I think a lot of the Church's opposition to the ERA was an effort to curry favor with the conservative movement in general, and it's one of the things I really hold against the Church. Most of their opposition to SS marriage initiatives has been a similar attempt, in my opinion, another which I disagree with.

Utah is in a very conservative part of country, regardless of religion, so that comes into play as well and people often don't acknowledge that. Mormons aren't a huge percentage of the population in Wyoming, which is still as conservative. People look at Utah and I think they place way too much emphasis on the Church's influence. Undoubtedly Mormons in Utah are more Republican than non-Mormons, but that has a lot to do with the identity politics of being a minority in the state for non-members. Most non-Mormons in Utah are Hispanic Catholics, evangelicals, or non-religious. Funnily enough, a lot of the evangelicals in Utah are Democrats, a main reason being that they are a minority and the majority, a majority they oppose vociferously, is generally Republican. Hispanics and non-religious people tend to be Democrats anyway. So when someone looks at the political demographics in Utah and they see that the Mormons are voting Republican and everyone else is voting Democrat, they make the mistake of thinking that the Church is somehow telling people how to vote. In reality, it is the non-Mormons who are generally voting according to religion; merely their opposition to one.

I've spent a lot of time with Mormons in the South, and more often than not they're Democrats, because they have to put up with the evangelical establishment in the Bible Belt and feel excluded from it. Another factor in Mormons voting Republican outside of the inter-mountain West, however, is income. The LDS Church places a HUGE emphasis on education; most white Mormons are educated. The culture of the Church encourages people into careers in engineering and the sciences. They tend to be fairly upper middle class because of this.

If you want any more elaboration feel free to ask, this post has gone on for way too long...

I know lots of Mormons and I agree with everything you've said in this post. Mormons are definitely more liberal on social issues than people think. Whenever evolution is brought up, it is Evangelicals that rise up to attack it, not Mormons. Some of my friend's parents who are Mormon have called Obama bright and a good leader. I've noticed that Mormons are very homophobic and fairly racist though. I know some Mormons who say nigg*r and express some disgust at minorities, but at the same time dislike swearing. I have no idea if their parents are this way and chose to hide it but it seems like racism is prevalent among Mormons in my area. If this is true in my part of Idaho, where most Mormons are affluent, then it must be true in southeastern Idaho, where the redneck Mormons live.

[rbt48]

Regarding 1964, I recall the President of the Mormon Church endorsed LBJ.  At that point, Goldwater gave up on the state.

Here is the Utah popular vote history:  http://members.cox.net/rbt48/weather/Presidential_Elections/Utah_pv.pdf

[RIP Robert H Bork]

The better question is why LBJ won UT 55-45.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Posts like useful idiot's are a BIG reason why I keep coming in this forum.

Thanks for the detailed analysis pal! 

[Bo]

The better question is why LBJ won UT 55-45.

You mean the margin? I guess that Goldwater appealed to many conservatives who voted for JFK in 1960. It also helped that Godlwater came from neighboring Arizona.

[minionofmidas]

I know lots of Mormons and I agree with everything you've said in this post. Mormons are definitely more liberal on social issues than people think. Whenever evolution is brought up, it is Evangelicals that rise up to attack it, not Mormons. Some of my friend's parents who are Mormon have called Obama bright and a good leader. I've noticed that Mormons are very homophobic and fairly racist though. I know some Mormons who say nigg*r and express some disgust at minorities, but at the same time dislike swearing. I have no idea if their parents are this way and chose to hide it but it seems like racism is prevalent among Mormons in my area. If this is true in my part of Idaho, where most Mormons are affluent, then it must be true in southeastern Idaho, where the redneck Mormons live.

No idea how relevant that is to current attitudes, but American Racism is deeply embedded in Mormon Theology (which is, after all, slightly younger) and full membership was actually not available to Blacks from the 1850s or so to 1978.
Pretty certain there are still more Mormon Native Americans than Mormon Blacks. (Mission to the Natives, whom the Book of Mormon teaches will all be saved eventually, which it doesn't say about Whites - though it also says they'll become White in the process - was very important to the LDS for generations. Though hindering/preventing it was just as important to the BIA, in the days of insitutional enmity post real persecution (which coincide with the crucial early reservation period in the west).

[rbt48]

There must be some message in the 1928 election results that seems to confirm that Mormons were less troubled voting for a Catholic than evangelical Protestants. 

Hoover got 53.58% in Utah.  Compare this with his dramatic breakthrough in portions of the Solid South:
North Carolina - 54.94%
Tennessee - 55.32%
Virginia - 53.91%
Florida - 57.87%

Also, note the strong Hoover support in "Bible Belt" border states that tended to favor Democrats back then:
West Virginia - 58.43%
Kentucky - 59.34%
Missouri - 55.57%
Maryland - 57.06%
Delaware - 65.83%

http://members.cox.net/rbt48/weather/Presidential_Elections/1928%20election%20spreadsheet.pdf

[Lief 🗽]

I know lots of Mormons and I agree with everything you've said in this post. Mormons are definitely more liberal on social issues than people think. Whenever evolution is brought up, it is Evangelicals that rise up to attack it, not Mormons. Some of my friend's parents who are Mormon have called Obama bright and a good leader. I've noticed that Mormons are very homophobic and fairly racist though. I know some Mormons who say nigg*r and express some disgust at minorities, but at the same time dislike swearing. I have no idea if their parents are this way and chose to hide it but it seems like racism is prevalent among Mormons in my area. If this is true in my part of Idaho, where most Mormons are affluent, then it must be true in southeastern Idaho, where the redneck Mormons live.

No idea how relevant that is to current attitudes, but American Racism is deeply embedded in Mormon Theology (which is, after all, slightly younger) and full membership was actually not available to Blacks from the 1850s or so to 1978.
Pretty certain there are still more Mormon Native Americans than Mormon Blacks. (Mission to the Natives, whom the Book of Mormon teaches will all be saved eventually, which it doesn't say about Whites - though it also says they'll become White in the process - was very important to the LDS for generations. Though hindering/preventing it was just as important to the BIA, in the days of insitutional enmity post real persecution (which coincide with the crucial early reservation period in the west).

Racism is a part of Mormon scripture:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[minionofmidas]

Yeah, thought so.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

Interestingly Al Smith also got respectable numbers in Utah in 1928, 45%. I think that a decent number of Mormons may just be sympathetic to other religious minorities which also might explain why Trump got less then 50% there in 2016.

[One Term Floridian]

Well I suppose both Mormons and Catholics are minorities in a certain sense.

This. There may have been camaraderie between these two groups because of mutual experiences regarding the extreme xenophobia of the time