Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Thread re-opened.

It is not my desire to criticize Ishan or anyone else for that matter. However, this situation is one that requires expeditious action for the stability of government.

Surely the Attorney General or someone can fill in as defense attorney for a government agency, or some similar resolution be found?

I think we also need to consider legislation to allow the Department of Elections to revise a count after certification. When Rpryor messed up the April 2017 At-Large House election certification it was fixed within a couple of days and no court case was involved. Considering that I have warned about the decline of the efficacy of the judicial system (its not the justices fault, more a cultural shift and other factors in Atlasia at large), hinging something like this on the ability of the judicial system to quickly intervene and resolve a situation is now too big an ask barring a dramatic shift back to how these things worked in the 2010s.

Mistakes will happen, voters overlooked (as happened in 2017) or wrongly included etc and relying on a complex process for resolution is unwise when we used to have a much simpler way to resolve this kind of thing, and we have to be mindful of the limits of the game as it is. 

Would it beneficial if I looked around for someone who could serve as a lawyer in defense of the defendant?

I mean sure. Considering how consequential this matter is one would expect at least some communication between the President, AG and SoFE at least to the extent of ensuring adequate legal representation.

[Joseph Cao]

My action here is to ask the Court to define when a session ends.

Every session of Atlasia’s Senate ends when the next one begins at noon on swearing-in day. We don't have lame duck sessions, never have. The Senate is never not in session. There's nothing for the Court to define because this is literally in the rules.

Also what fhtagn said.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

FairBol, how have you spent all this time on a politics forum and involved in politics IRL and not understand what a lame duck session is?

I'm not even trying to attack you or anything, I'm just genuinely confused how you don't understand this.

This, and even if the 10 days came right at session switch (I know we don't formally do the 5 minute adjourn sine die and reconvene ritual like IRL, but maybe you could apply the general principle that the sessions are separate), you could argue that our Senate is a continuing body because we don't elect all of them at the same time and don't auto table everything at session switch.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

FairBol, how have you spent all this time on a politics forum and involved in politics IRL and not understand what a lame duck session is?

I'm not even trying to attack you or anything, I'm just genuinely confused how you don't understand this.

With a few regional exceptions, the new term/session has always commenced at noon on the first Friday of the month following the election.

Fairbol could make a case if we were talking Lincoln, because as a result of a Philly Plan relic I felt actually worked ok, we still vote everything up or down and adjourn sine die at the election, reconvening the following Wednesday. But the South, iirc, still has a short lame duck session even though they rarely use it. I make it a point to never follow Fremont.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

FairBol, how have you spent all this time on a politics forum and involved in politics IRL and not understand what a lame duck session is?

I'm not even trying to attack you or anything, I'm just genuinely confused how you don't understand this.

This, and even if the 10 days came right at session switch (I know we don't formally do the 5 minute adjourn sine die and reconvene ritual like IRL, but maybe you could apply the general principle that the sessions are separate), you could argue that our Senate is a continuing body because we don't elect all of them at the same time and don't auto table everything at session switch.

We used to.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=112274.0

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Funny this is the day, of all days, I chose to rest my computer. Murphy's Law I suppose...
I trust the Supreme Court to come to a fair ruling on whether or not YoungTexan has violated the law, and if so, what consequences that will carry.
How long that process will precisely manifest, I cannot be sure.
I know that in one case in the past with me as defendant, it came soon enough. And we don't win all our battles.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'm so distraught that my Serious Proposal to let the regions nuke each other or other countries wasn't received well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm so distraught that my Serious Proposal to let the regions nuke each other or other countries wasn't received well.

"Everyone wants reform, but nobody wants your reform".

Tale as old as time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We have had numerous indictments in this game and numerous trials and convictions. I don't recall any time in which a grand jury was employed. Whether this was game practicality, different set of laws at the time or just twenty years of prosecutorial misconduct I cannot really attest to from my phone at work.

It's certainly something to contemplate in terms of how we handle these things in game and to how dysfunctional anything resembling a criminal justice system has become at this point.

[Poirot]

I don't recall any time in which a grand jury was employed. Whether this was game practicality, different set of laws at the time or just twenty years of prosecutorial misconduct I cannot really attest to from my phone at work.

Not sure when it was, maybe when the criminal laws had to be adopted after the reset, I asked why there was the grand jury in the law. If we don't have one remove it.

[Mr. Reactionary]

We have had numerous indictments in this game and numerous trials and convictions. I don't recall any time in which a grand jury was employed. Whether this was game practicality, different set of laws at the time or just twenty years of prosecutorial misconduct I cannot really attest to from my phone at work.

It's certainly something to contemplate in terms of how we handle these things in game and to how dysfunctional anything resembling a criminal justice system has become at this point.

If a defendant is unaware of his rights, he effectively consents to waive them.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We have had numerous indictments in this game and numerous trials and convictions. I don't recall any time in which a grand jury was employed. Whether this was game practicality, different set of laws at the time or just twenty years of prosecutorial misconduct I cannot really attest to from my phone at work.

It's certainly something to contemplate in terms of how we handle these things in game and to how dysfunctional anything resembling a criminal justice system has become at this point.

If a defendant is unaware of his rights, he effectively consents to waive them.

In a real life context sure, but many RL legal concepts are have historically not been utilized in game. A good example would be when I told you that the court does not enforce standing and your response to that back in 2017 was "without standing, you don't have a case".

Historically, whenever a crime was evidently committed, the AG would just "issue an indictment", the Supreme Court would recognize the indictment and proceed with empaneling a jury. The only time that this did not happen was when Al charged Classic Conservative and myself with treason in July 2015 using twisted words from a Senate debate and this was so clearly bs that the Senate immediately moved towards impeachment on a bipartisan basis.

Election Related Stuff:
Atlasia v. Benconstine: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=95003.0 (AG: Marokai Blue)
Atlasia v. JoMCar: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203542.0 (AG: Zuwo)
Atlasia v. Labron Fitzgerald: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203653.0 (AG: Zuwo)

Treason:
Atlasia v. Alfred E. Jones: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203543.0 (AG: Zuwo)
Atlasia v. Snowstalker: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=200112.0 (AG: Bacon King)

No Grand Jury was used in either of the botched attempts at LT in 2021.

[Mr. Reactionary]

We have had numerous indictments in this game and numerous trials and convictions. I don't recall any time in which a grand jury was employed. Whether this was game practicality, different set of laws at the time or just twenty years of prosecutorial misconduct I cannot really attest to from my phone at work.

It's certainly something to contemplate in terms of how we handle these things in game and to how dysfunctional anything resembling a criminal justice system has become at this point.

If a defendant is unaware of his rights, he effectively consents to waive them.

In a real life context sure, but many RL legal concepts are have historically not been utilized in game. A good example would be when I told you that the court does not enforce standing and your response to that back in 2017 was "without standing, you don't have a case".

Historically, whenever a crime was evidently committed, the AG would just "issue an indictment", the Supreme Court would recognize the indictment and proceed with empaneling a jury. The only time that this did not happen was when Al charged Classic Conservative and myself with treason in July 2015 using twisted words from a Senate debate and this was so clearly bs that the Senate immediately moved towards impeachment on a bipartisan basis.

Election Related Stuff:
Atlasia v. Benconstine: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=95003.0 (AG: Marokai Blue)
Atlasia v. JoMCar: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203542.0 (AG: Zuwo)
Atlasia v. Labron Fitzgerald: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203653.0 (AG: Zuwo)

Treason:
Atlasia v. Alfred E. Jones: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=203543.0 (AG: Zuwo)
Atlasia v. Snowstalker: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=200112.0 (AG: Bacon King)

No Grand Jury was used in either of the botched attempts at LT in 2021.

All I know is Art. 1, Sec. 11 of the Atlasian bill of rights has to exist for a reason. It requires grand juries and does zero other things, which means its inclusion would have been surplus if it wasnt intended to do something. And that something was likely to screen out randos from doing what happened here: claiming to have "witnessed a crime" as part of some intended entrapment scheme then magically transforming into a prosecutor after filing a lawsuit based solely on the rando's limited perception of events.

[Joseph Cao]

Even by the standards of recent federal prosecutors this is… not going especially well, is it?

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Even by the standards of recent federal prosecutors this is… not going especially well, is it?

better than S019 did

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Someone who's gunning for the S019 award for most incompetent federal prosecutor vs Someone who rigidly insists on irl legal procedure no matter how absurd/impossible it is to recreate in an online election game. What an incredible battle. Incredible as in not credible.

[Ragnaroni]

"If they're indicting Trump in real life, we should indict these guys too!"

[Devout Centrist]

"If they're indicting Trump in real life, we should indict these guys too!"

Trump won a Presidential election.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Forgot to click the button that applies the name of the merged topic to all posts.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Well well, you cannot accuse NCY of being unwilling to use the court system.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well well, you cannot accuse NCY of being unwilling to use the court system.

I needed the court system to be there and responsive. I also needed the last election settled quickly.

The reasons for both should be painfully obvious now beyond just the stated concerns at the time.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

"If they're indicting Trump in real life, we should indict these guys too!"

[OBD]

$10 says Yankee uses his mod powers to yeet the Southerners by the end of the crisis

[reagente]

$10 says Yankee uses his mod powers to yeet the Southerners by the end of the crisis

Yankee wouldn't do that, whatever else I don't believe he would abuse his mod powers.