Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads)

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Spectacular legislative prowess to pass an ultimately pretty meaningless ”reform” and somehow completely ignore the consequences of said bill! Hopefully the Supreme Court doesn’t take their usual leisurely pace with deliberations otherwise the next senate may never be seated! Given it’s taken the NPC case more than 2 months to select a jury, an interregnum till fresh elections may be on the cards.

All other elected seats aren't being contested in court. The most appropriate course of action would be to seat all other elected Senators while declaring the disputed seat vacant, possibly with a special election.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Was there ever zero registered voters in the United Kingdom? I am seeing now that Griff and Thumb moved out, but I dunno if there were any others.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Spectacular legislative prowess to pass an ultimately pretty meaningless ”reform” and somehow completely ignore the consequences of said bill! Hopefully the Supreme Court doesn’t take their usual leisurely pace with deliberations otherwise the next senate may never be seated! Given it’s taken the NPC case more than 2 months to select a jury, an interregnum till fresh elections may be on the cards.

All other elected seats aren't being contested in court. The most appropriate course of action would be to seat all other elected Senators while declaring the disputed seat vacant, possibly with a special election.

The entire at-large certification is suspended until the court case is resolved. The subregionally elected senators will take their seats as scheduled. All at-large seats, as of May 5, will be vacant by court order until the case is resolved. I suspect our Labor-Majority court will not want that to be the reality for long, considering the composition of the temporary 9 member senate will be 5 Peace 2 DA 1 Fed 1 SNP.

Was there ever zero registered voters in the United Kingdom? I am seeing now that Griff and Thumb moved out, but I dunno if there were any others.

No. Pink Panther is *still* registered there, though I guess his vote isn't being challenged because the existing counts are sufficient to decide this issue and correct the error in outcome.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

For the time being, the position of the Attorney General's office is that the as-of-now current understanding of the Census Bureau is the law of the land. I welcome a quicker-than-usual judgement on this issue from the highest court in the land, considering what is up in the air.

[FairBol]

A little decorum here, please.  This is neither the time nor the place. 

[FairBol]

Yes, the Wikipedia attorney that could not figure out if he had been elected or not is the attorney of record on an election case. The next legal ace of the world, ladies, gentleman, and others.

Says the guy who wants his region to secede, but has given no legitimate reason for doing that.  Epic power trip, anyone?

BTW, stop acting like you're trying to be Donald Trump.  You're WAY more of an idiot than he is. 

[FairBol]

Amicus Brief in reply to Amici Fairbol



Thank you.

- OriAr, Chief Counsel of Atlasias Against Election Fraud

That's the best you've got? Apparently, rebuttal is not your strong suit. 

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I absolutely abhor about 95% of what Young Texan says these days, but this is the 5%. I completely concur with all his comments regarding Fairbol and his brief.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I split off and merged some of the arguing from the case thread itself.

Gonna have to ask that we stop throwing insults around immediately and focus on the legal matters in question instead.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I absolutely abhor about 95% of what Young Texan says these days, but this is the 5%. I completely concur with all his comments regarding Fairbol and his brief.

Its okay to criticize performance in office, but it is not acceptable to engage in personal attacks in the process. I know it is hard, harder for some, to draw the line appropriately and that unfortunately necessitates that I intervene.

I have long believed that this game can be played by all different kinds of people and as long as it is not overwhelming disruptive, such should not be aggressively dismissed in this fashion.

Beyond that, this forum has rules on personal attacks and those rules will be enforced.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

YT I am gonna need you to chill for me okay.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

YT I am gonna need you to chill for me okay.

I’m fine, Yankee, truly.

The Southern Nation will have to respond to Fairbol’s latest drunken tirades.

And there is a way to do that without personal attacks. Highlight record, criticize past performances, but don't attack people's intelligence or devalue them as a person/player.

[FairBol]

Going to have to correct the record here. 

I NEVER claimed to have won election.  I simply stated that until some sort of official results were in, I was holding off on conceding.  (Don't blame me for your lack of reading comprehension, though)

Listen, those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, believe me. In this case I don’t even think you would understand that basic concept.

Here's another concept for ya..."if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". 

[FairBol]

I absolutely abhor about 95% of what Young Texan says these days, but this is the 5%. I completely concur with all his comments regarding Fairbol and his brief.

Wow.  Who crapped in your Wheaties this morning?

[FairBol]

o

Going to have to correct the record here.  

I NEVER claimed to have won election.  I simply stated that until some sort of official results were in, I was holding off on conceding.  (Don't blame me for your lack of reading comprehension, though)

Listen, those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, believe me. In this case I don’t even think you would understand that basic concept.

Here's another concept for ya..."if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".  

Well, you would be used to being in a kitchen, wouldn’t you.

You didn’t concede, stop coping. Now secondly, I can stand the heat lol. You on the other hand, begging for support, that is something you won’t be seeing me aiding in ever again.

Let’s be honest here, you like to create your own facts. And you also don’t like being called on it, considering you didn’t even quote me directly so I wouldn’t respond.

Fairbol, act your age not your shoe size, please!

Oh really? Then what's this, Big Mouth?



You talk sh**t like you know what it is.  Don't mistake my kindness and friendliness for weakness.  That's not a mistake that you want to make. 

[FairBol]

Going to have to correct the record here. 

I NEVER claimed to have won election.  I simply stated that until some sort of official results were in, I was holding off on conceding.  (Don't blame me for your lack of reading comprehension, though)

Listen, those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, believe me. In this case I don’t even think you would understand that basic concept.

Here's another concept for ya..."if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". 

You on the other hand, begging for support, that is something you won’t be seeing me aiding in ever again.

Oh boo hoo, some random guy in an online political game says he'll never support me again.  Whatever shall I do? (Sarcasm, of course)

[West_Midlander]

No need to get personal. Please.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am locking this thread for 24 hours.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Thread re-opened.

It is not my desire to criticize Ishan or anyone else for that matter. However, this situation is one that requires expeditious action for the stability of government.

Surely the Attorney General or someone can fill in as defense attorney for a government agency, or some similar resolution be found?

I think we also need to consider legislation to allow the Department of Elections to revise a count after certification. When Rpryor messed up the April 2017 At-Large House election certification it was fixed within a couple of days and no court case was involved. Considering that I have warned about the decline of the efficacy of the judicial system (its not the justices fault, more a cultural shift and other factors in Atlasia at large), hinging something like this on the ability of the judicial system to quickly intervene and resolve a situation is now too big an ask barring a dramatic shift back to how these things worked in the 2010s.

Mistakes will happen, voters overlooked (as happened in 2017) or wrongly included etc and relying on a complex process for resolution is unwise when we used to have a much simpler way to resolve this kind of thing, and we have to be mindful of the limits of the game as it is. 

[Joseph Cao]

Sestak v. Peebs also got resolved pretty quickly but there was a court case brought forward and Peebs agreed with it and revised the count herself.

[FairBol]

It seems to me that the Court really hasn't considered my argument in this case.  Allow me to explain. 

As I pointed out in the case thread:

According to Wikipedia, “a pocket veto occurs when a bill fails to become law because the president does not sign it within the ten-day period and cannot return the bill to Congress because Congress is no longer in session”.

The petition says that the statute allowing foreigners to vote was repealed by the Senate, with such repeal taking effect on February 18, 2023 due to inaction of the president. 

Here's what the Fifth Atlasian Constitution says about pending legislation (Article III Section 1, clauses 8-9):

8. All legislation passed by the Senate, save constitutional amendments and resolutions, shall, before it becomes law, be submitted to the judgement of the President. A passed bill shall become law upon the signature of the President or seven days of Presidential inaction.

So normally, upon seven days of inactivity of the president in regards to a bill, the bill becomes law even without his signature. 

Now we come to Clause 9:

9. Should the President disapprove of a bill, it shall be sent back to the Senate. If, after considering the President’s objections, the Senate passes the bill again by a two-thirds vote, it shall become law regardless.

--

Note the part I've highlighted in bold.  It says that "should the president disapprove of a bill, (the bill) shall be sent back to the Senate". 

Well, what if the Senate is not in session at the time of the seven-day expiration?


Although the Constitution doesn't specifically define a "session", RL precedent holds that the term means an individual meeting of the legislative body; "each Congress generally has two sessions". 

And in this case, "meeting" can be construed as meaning a term of the Atlasian Senate, which lasts for about two months (Article III Section 2, Clause 1, sub-clause I).


Referring again to RL precedence, a term is generally considered to expire upon the opening of the next election for that office.  At that point, the previous Senate no longer has the power to make law; such power is held up until the members of a new Senate are elected, and that meeting/session begins.   

This is the meaning behind the phrase "pocket veto"; due to the adjournment of the legislative body, the president cannot return the bill in question.  In that case, such a bill "shall not be a law" (Article I Section 7, US Constitution)



The February election opened on February 17th.  The bill supposedly came into force of law on February 18th; one day after the previous term would have expired. 

So the concern is this; was the Senate in valid session when the bill came into force, or was it not? If the latter interpretation is the correct one, then the bill was vetoed by use of the "pocket veto", and its provisions repealing the ability for foreigners Griff and Thumb to vote never took effect. 

In that case, the defendants win.  My action here is to ask the Court to define when a session ends.

(Apologies for the length of this post) 

[fhtagn]

FairBol, how have you spent all this time on a politics forum and involved in politics IRL and not understand what a lame duck session is?

I'm not even trying to attack you or anything, I'm just genuinely confused how you don't understand this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

FairBol, how have you spent all this time on a politics forum and involved in politics IRL and not understand what a lame duck session is?

I'm not even trying to attack you or anything, I'm just genuinely confused how you don't understand this.

With a few regional exceptions, the new term/session has always commenced at noon on the first Friday of the month following the election.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Thread re-opened.

It is not my desire to criticize Ishan or anyone else for that matter. However, this situation is one that requires expeditious action for the stability of government.

Surely the Attorney General or someone can fill in as defense attorney for a government agency, or some similar resolution be found?

I think we also need to consider legislation to allow the Department of Elections to revise a count after certification. When Rpryor messed up the April 2017 At-Large House election certification it was fixed within a couple of days and no court case was involved. Considering that I have warned about the decline of the efficacy of the judicial system (its not the justices fault, more a cultural shift and other factors in Atlasia at large), hinging something like this on the ability of the judicial system to quickly intervene and resolve a situation is now too big an ask barring a dramatic shift back to how these things worked in the 2010s.

Mistakes will happen, voters overlooked (as happened in 2017) or wrongly included etc and relying on a complex process for resolution is unwise when we used to have a much simpler way to resolve this kind of thing, and we have to be mindful of the limits of the game as it is. 

Would it beneficial if I looked around for someone who could serve as a lawyer in defense of the defendant?