The State of Atlasian Parties

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'd never call you guys irrelevant, I don't know anyone that does for you or the LNF, you guys just thrive on the fact that you're constantly the "lesser of two evils" choice. Afleitch admitting that he sways with the wind isn't exactly a kind reflection on your party, for that matter.

The LNF is... different. But both groups have many people I like and respect.

I wholeheartedly disagree I don't 'sway with the wind'; I compromise.

I support the minimum wage, but I would never have voted for the Minimum Wage bill as it stood. However it was amended in such a way that I was happy to vote for it. Likewise in the last session I came out in favour of the healthcare bill as soon as it was announced because that's what I believed in. I am centre-right, but very open to the welfare system and I vote for things in Atlasia that I would support in real life.

You may disagree, but this is exactly what you said:

I've voted in favour of bills that I wouldn't have necessarily backed, but the 'wind' is behind them.

If you're not voting in favor of bills you believe in, but merely doing so because the momentum is behind them, you're not only part of the problem, but you're not being genuine.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

We can talk about tax cuts on such a large scale when you talk about tax hikes for the wealthy. Unless the right can come to some sort of basic realization that we need revenue, cutting it is an insanely stupid thing to do.

Everyone wants to either increase spending or slash revenues, sometimes both, and we cannot do both. You remain, as others in the Senate, in knee-jerk opposition to tax hikes on the wealthier Atlasians, but ardent in your support of slashing taxes for those at the bottom.

Simple government-running refresher:

Money comes in.
Money coming in goes out to pay for things.
When money going out exceeds money coming in, we need more money.

If you can't realize this, then yes, I will oppose any and all tax cuts.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You introduced an unnecessary radical overhaul of our banking system for no reason. Of course there's going to be opposition to it. It would be as if I suddenly and out of the blue introduced legislation to re-work the entire national highway system, or dismantle our currency. There's no need for it at all. You've yet to explain what problems we have that need to be fixed, and how your system fixes them. How restructuring could be done, etc. In short, why we need to pay attention to the idea in the first place.

As for the welfare bill, it just seemed like similarly unnecessary restrictions on the safety net at a time when the safety net is more needed than ever. You seem to have a knack for incredibly shortsighted and random legislation that is either ignorant of the consequences or wholly unnecessary.

[afleitch]

You may disagree, but this is exactly what you said:

I've voted in favour of bills that I wouldn't have necessarily backed, but the 'wind' is behind them.

If you're not voting in favor of bills you believe in, but merely doing so because the momentum is behind them, you're not only part of the problem, but you're not being genuine.

What part of 'compromise' are you not grasping here? Of course you vote for bills you don't always like. The 'wind' was behind the stimulus bill even though I took issue with a great number of the proposals within. Should I be stubborn and refuse to budge on the issue because I can't get the bill I want? Or do you look at the full picture, look at what you as an individual have contributed and what other Senators have worked hard on and vote for a bill on it's merit?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You were quite happy to throw tax incentives and cuts at big business but had very little concern for the tax levied on individuals. If you criticise me for putting tax cuts on the table then go ahead and draft a bill to hike the tax on the wealthy to pay for everything the Senate is pushing through.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'll say to you what I said to the President on that Welfare Bill before you levy the accusation that I 'restrict' the safety net

I hope that the President is aware that vetoing this bill does nothing to help establish a workable welfare policy and encourage people to find jobs. We have no welfare policy. I also strongly object to his notion that 'voluntary work' makes the unemployed 'like criminals'; such a comparison is greatly offensive to the thousands if not millions of employed and unemployed Atlasians who undertake voluntary work for the benefit of their families and their communities.

To give the unemployed the chance to do something is important for their dignity. At present (as the longstanding Welfare Bill this legislation was based on was overturned) they are simply given handouts. There are no opportunities for work. No opportunities for training. The state, legislatively does nothing for them other than give them a cheque and hope they fend for themselves.

The President has, will all due respect just left the unemployed and those looking for work at the mercy of the market.

Do you know what assistance the state provided people to find work prior to the revised bill being passed?

F### all.

And you say I was against a safety net?

[Purple State]

To Purple, I enjoyed your original post.  I've been thinking a lot about Atlasia recently, which I didn't really do before.  I guess its just because I've been more active in the Court, or rather that there have been more controversial cases at the Court (and the Court has become more controversial since recent appointments). 

I agree that there has been a pleasing rise in interest overall, and the rise of the PCP has to some extent invigorated appreciation of the JCP by its loyalists.  The DA, while having no appeal for me, does have a lot of personally productive and highly contributory members.  The LNF not so much. 

But regarding the centrism which dominates, I think its rather inevitable given the makeup of the electorate.

I just wish the LNF members would reform themselves - lampooning something which is just a game in the first place seems, well, pretty hollow work.  Come back to the JCP, guys..

I am happy you enjoyed it. My intent was to sorta put out some ideas I had and see where it grew. I have found it increasingly easy to view Atlasia as a rapidly developing cauldron of political science theory.

My one point of contention with your comments is the role of the LNF. While I certainly believe it is ironic to spend so much time satirizing a world you take as just a game, the party does serve as a sort of "reality check" on the status of the game. Are we taking this too seriously? Is that healthy for the game or does it harm the game? I think it is about time we start asking those questions.

I also think there is a certain congruence between the DA and LNF. Both parties reject (or attempt to reject) the more venomous nature of the game and seek to reform/undermine the system established by and that favors the hard lines of the left and right. Certainly it can't be said that the DA endorses what the LNF stands for in a more ideological sense, but I do believe the underlying themes are the same and it seems to me it is that message, when controlling for zombie-registrations, that is resonating powerfully in Atlasia at the moment.

[Хahar 🤔]

My one point of contention with your comments is the role of the LNF. While I certainly believe it is ironic to spend so much time satirizing a world you take as just a game, the party does serve as a sort of "reality check" on the status of the game. Are we taking this too seriously? Is that healthy for the game or does it harm the game? I think it is about time we start asking those questions.

Of course it's ironic. But the fact that certain people take a game they profess not to care about so seriously is also ironic.

[Alexander Hamilton]

You made this same argument a while back.

People claim the DA exists but there is little proof of such. There is essentially a two-party system.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

[Smid]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

It's okay, Marokai is just the JCP/left version of DWTL. He's the attack dog and that's what he does.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

I don't pander to both sides of the aisle. I stand for my convictions and don't "sway in the wind." The DA has higher approvals and is over-represented because they're the lesser of two evils. The JCP will almost always preference a DAer above an RPP/PCP candidate, and the RPP/PCP will almost always preference a DAer above a JCP candidate. It's quite simple.

As childish as it may seem to some, I genuinely believe in the idea that if I'm not offending someone, I'm doing something wrong. Moderation, to me, is a grave insult.

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

It's okay, Marokai is just the JCP/left version of DWTL. He's the attack dog and that's what he does.

Not only am I much easier to work with, I'm also a nicer guy (if anyone here takes the time to get to know me), much less ego-maniacal (in fact I've consistently taken the "I'm just another JCP member" approach, despite people telling me that I'm more important than I consider myself) and I don't try to cut backroom deals or maneuver around for my own power and/or attention.

Jolly good if I offend people, but that alone does not make me like DWTL.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

I don't pander to both sides of the aisle. I stand for my convictions and don't "sway in the wind." The DA has higher approvals and is over-represented because they're the lesser of two evils. The JCP will almost always preference a DAer above an RPP/PCP candidate, and the RPP/PCP will almost always preference a DAer above a JCP candidate. It's quite simple.

As childish as it may seem to some, I genuinely believe in the idea that if I'm not offending someone, I'm doing something wrong. Moderation, to me, is a grave insult.

That they are, should change come December. Hopefully. But afleitch is a good Senator. I'd rank him the best one, personally, with Fritz in second.

I see you are trying really, really hard to be the next Ebowed. Hopefully it isn't allowed to continue.

[Marokai Backbeat]

"The next Ebowed"?

How is that?

And I thought I was DWTL? Is there some problem with me just being Marokai?

[Alexander Hamilton]

"The next Ebowed"?

How is that?

With far-left legislation (and lots of it), a consistent and forceful presence, and a condescending attitude.

And I thought I was DWTL? Is there some problem with me just being Marokai?

Well, there's a reason DWTL and Ebowed were always rivals...

[Marokai Backbeat]

I am a Democratic Socialist, and I see no reason to be ashamed of it. I think the difference between myself and Ebowed is that I actually take my jobs here quite seriously. The issues I bring up in legislation are issues I know a great deal about and stand ready to defend at any instance, and any time I've been given work I've proven myself to be an exceptional administrator.

In short, what I like to think distinguishes me from other fiery and divisive figures is that can really do my job well.

People may not enjoy my attitude from time to time, but I want people to see that they don't have to like me, to like me. If that makes sense.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I am a Democratic Socialist, and I see no reason to be ashamed of it. I think the difference between myself and Ebowed is that I actually take my jobs here quite seriously. The issues I bring up in legislation are issues I know a great deal about and stand ready to defend at any instance, and any time I've been given work I've proven myself to be an exceptional administrator.

In short, what I like to think distinguishes me from other fiery and divisive figures is that can really do my job well.

People may not enjoy my attitude from time to time, but I want people to see that they don't have to like me, to like me. If that makes sense.

In that case, what are your opinions toward me at the moment?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Oh you already asked me that question in private, Hamilton.

I also mentioned to you in private I wanted to stop this squabbling, which unfortunately didn't happen. An untrustworthy but effective recruiter is the simplest way of describing how I feel about you, but one I wish I didn't have to bicker with on a daily basis.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Oh you already asked me that question in private, Hamilton.

I also mentioned to you in private I wanted to stop this squabbling, which unfortunately didn't happen. An untrustworthy but effective recruiter is the simplest way of describing how I feel about you, but one I wish I didn't have to bicker with on a daily basis.

This isn't squabbling. This is slightly partisan, yet somewhat productive conversation. I mean, we both have our points. I think everything I've pointed out has been pretty reasonable.

You want to be controversial? Well, that's fine. But you will almost always have me here to disagree

[Marokai Backbeat]

Yes I feel unusually calm tonight, hopefully it passes.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Yes I feel unusually calm tonight, hopefully it passes.

When do you sleep?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Yes I feel unusually calm tonight, hopefully it passes.

When do you sleep?

Almost never.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Yes I feel unusually calm tonight, hopefully it passes.

When do you sleep?

Almost never.

Same here. I have insomnia so the school put me on sleeping pills.

Back on topic, I don't think we are "squabbling." No longer are you calling me a two-face, or we doing what ever I do to earn a "Hamilton is subtle"

[Smid]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

It's okay, Marokai is just the JCP/left version of DWTL. He's the attack dog and that's what he does.

Not only am I much easier to work with, I'm also a nicer guy (if anyone here takes the time to get to know me), much less ego-maniacal (in fact I've consistently taken the "I'm just another JCP member" approach, despite people telling me that I'm more important than I consider myself) and I don't try to cut backroom deals or maneuver around for my own power and/or attention.

Jolly good if I offend people, but that alone does not make me like DWTL.

I wasn't meaning that you're not someone who people can't get on with - I think I get on with you pretty well when we converse (which, admittedly, has not been common more recently). I was more saying that both you and DWTL fulfil similar roles - one of attack dog - and that I'm sure Afleitch won't take your criticism overly seriously, since that's your role. I mean, if you consider any comment attacking a party not that of the person making the comment, and it's almost certainly going to have been made by either you or DWTL. Take a look at your signature - plenty of people have supportive campaign banners... I think you're the only one who has a negative, attack-ad style campaign banner. I'm not criticising that, I'm merely pointing out that your role and DWTL's role is pretty much the same, it's just DWTL does it for the PC/RPP/right and you do it for the JCP/left. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just making the observation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

I don't pander to both sides of the aisle. I stand for my convictions and don't "sway in the wind." The DA has higher approvals and is over-represented because they're the lesser of two evils. The JCP will almost always preference a DAer above an RPP/PCP candidate, and the RPP/PCP will almost always preference a DAer above a JCP candidate. It's quite simple.

As childish as it may seem to some, I genuinely believe in the idea that if I'm not offending someone, I'm doing something wrong. Moderation, to me, is a grave insult.

I'd also like to point out to Marokai that afleitch's approval is far higher than his, so I don't see why he is referring to his contributions as "useless."

It's okay, Marokai is just the JCP/left version of DWTL. He's the attack dog and that's what he does.

Not only am I much easier to work with, I'm also a nicer guy (if anyone here takes the time to get to know me), much less ego-maniacal (in fact I've consistently taken the "I'm just another JCP member" approach, despite people telling me that I'm more important than I consider myself) and I don't try to cut backroom deals or maneuver around for my own power and/or attention.

Jolly good if I offend people, but that alone does not make me like DWTL.

It wouldn't go that far.

[Purple State]

You made this same argument a while back.

People claim the DA exists but there is little proof of such. There is essentially a two-party system.

This was when the SDP still existed and I don't even think the DA had a platform yet. The two-party system was the SDP-RPP, so I don't consider that discussion relevant to this one.

And I agree with Smid: every party needs their attack dog. I've made this point (as part of a broader party foundation theory) to many people on the forum. I assume I am the DA's pitbull?

[minionofmidas]

The LNF shall have an attack rabbit. I'm thinking a Belgian Giant will do fine.

[Sewer]

Belgian Giant

Its like wow.

[ilikeverin]

Win

As to the critics of the LNF: you're just jealous of our turnout.