Anti-Federalist League

[Хahar 🤔]

It would never pass, and even if it did, it wouldn't pass the regional vote that would follow.

I like the idea of an upper house for regional representation. It would certainly pass in my region.

The regions would decide how they are selected, and perhaps they could have longer terms to make the position more prestigious, say, 6 months.

The regions could also set the term lengths. If a region wanted to designate its Governor a member of the Upper House, it could set that spot's term to be the same length as the gubernatorial term.

I personally think the terms should be the same length, otherwise people from regions with longer terms would have more power, because they could gain more clout without worrying about reelection/reappointment.

Hmm, that's a good point. However, power in the Atlasian Senate has never depended on length of service.

[Vepres]

It would never pass, and even if it did, it wouldn't pass the regional vote that would follow.

Don't be so sure. You and your two JCP colleagues would vote for it, as would afleitch and Franzl (I've spoke to the latter about the issue a few weeks ago), I would think Hashemite would support it too. There, and if one of those dissents, Tmthforu may vote for it under certain conditions.

As for the regions, it's guaranteed to pass in my region and the Northeast, I would think the pacific and Mideast could be swayed.

It would never pass, and even if it did, it wouldn't pass the regional vote that would follow.

I like the idea of an upper house for regional representation. It would certainly pass in my region.

The regions would decide how they are selected, and perhaps they could have longer terms to make the position more prestigious, say, 6 months.

The regions could also set the term lengths. If a region wanted to designate its Governor a member of the Upper House, it could set that spot's term to be the same length as the gubernatorial term.

I personally think the terms should be the same length, otherwise people from regions with longer terms would have more power, because they could gain more clout without worrying about reelection/reappointment.

Hmm, that's a good point. However, power in the Atlasian Senate has never depended on length of service.

That is true, however, if one member of the upper house has a four month term, while another has a six month term, the latter would have more time to establish himself in his first term than the former. However, after the first term this issue probably subsides.

Still, I would like the elections or appointments of this house to occur simultaneously, if only to make the whole thing more significant. After all, elections are the best part of the game.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm anti-regional seats, but I'm in favor of regions. Is this enough to join ?

Certainly.

I hereby join.

[minionofmidas]

I am not in favor of abolishing the regions - at least not in favor of abolishing the Midwest.

I am certainly in favor of abolishing regional seats, preferrably replacing them with a form of proportional representation different from that used for the other class of seats.

Of course, the big issue remains recognition of the truth about Atlasia's size and location / recognition of the continued existence of the United States of America / full Atlasian independence from the United States of America / whatever you want to call it. And, unlike regional Senate seats, on this issue it's very clear that I am in the minority.

[Hash]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

[Purple State]

I'm not so much interested in the basic premise of this group as much as where it seems to be going. I would support removing regional Senate seats, perhaps in favor of a 7 seat At-Large Senate, with an Upper chamber that handles more constitutional/regional representation matters. It could be more of a yes/no than an amending body, giving a thumbs up/down with instructions and recommendations.

In fact, I wouldn't mind abolishing the presidency and instituting an oligarchy that serves this function with a presiding officer (whoever gets the most votes) that would serve as the body's PPT and appoint Cabinet officials for approval by the Senate.

As seen here, you could do some pretty freaky stuff with this. Worth thinking about.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The ConCon failed. Another fyi

[Purple State]

The ConCon failed. Another fyi

Yes, after experimenting with some pretty freaky stuff. Of course, I did always hope that those seeds would start popping up sooner or later. And hey, that drove activity in Atlasia for a while and led to some pretty substantive ideas about game reform, many of which are now accepted law.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The ConCon failed. Another fyi

Yes, after experimenting with some pretty freaky stuff. Of course, I did always hope that those seeds would start popping up sooner or later. And hey, that drove activity in Atlasia for a while and led to some pretty substantive ideas about game reform, many of which are now accepted law.

The problem is this: everyone wants reform. No one can agree on a way to reform. So status quo. I don't necessarily see a problem with our current set up, though. It allows for an easy learning curve and strong political parties.

[Hash]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

And it isn't like the support of one person is crucial. It usually falls short by much more than 1 vote.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

And it isn't like the support of one person is crucial. It usually falls short by much more than 1 vote.

You're not a person, you're a Senator, and one of the best. So you have certainly the opportunity to push for this sort of reforms. If we make reasonable choice and manage to convince people, then we can change things.

[Purple State]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

And it isn't like the support of one person is crucial. It usually falls short by much more than 1 vote.

You're not a person, you're a Senator, and one of the best. So you have certainly the opportunity to push for this sort of reforms. If we make reasonable choice and manage to convince people, then we can change things.

The problem is, there are so many variations on the same ideas that there is no middle-road to gather a consensus around. While it is easy to envision at least one DA Senator siding with the RPP Senators to kill any proposed amendment, it is even easier to imagine a JCP Senator doing the same thing.

We need a balance that just gets too complicated and loses too many people during calibration.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

And it isn't like the support of one person is crucial. It usually falls short by much more than 1 vote.

Yeah but its called vote-swinging and it works.

[Purple State]

Hmm, despite best intentions of reforms by well-intentioned and intelligent reformers, these attempts have always seemed to failed or fall short of passing.

That means we have a chance. The support of a Senator (and a regional one !) would be very helpful for our cause.

That wouldn't be a good move in a tight race, fyi

And it isn't like the support of one person is crucial. It usually falls short by much more than 1 vote.

Yeah but its called vote-swinging and it works.

This is the one topic it usually doesn't work in. Game reform, as opposed to most other things we do here, has an actual impact on game play and the forces of inertia are sizable here.

But hey, you can try and I'm happy to take part in the discussion. It is sort of a rite of passage for semi-new members. Everyone does it at one point or another.

[bgwah]

The RPP's name change is appropriate--their rampant strategic registration is threatening regions more than anything else has in a whole year...