ProCon October 2009 Convention in Indianapolis (Voting on Platform)

[Alexander Hamilton]

I move to endorse dead0man for Midwest Senate.

[Gustaf]

Tone it down people. Especially Hamilton. I don't want to be forced to clean away posters again. Try to keep it civil and respectful.

[Hash]

This makes the PS look fully united.

[Alexander Hamilton]

This makes the PS look fully united.

tbh no one really cares about whatever the hell party that is, because it is less relevant than the Peace and Freedom Party

[Hash]

This makes the PS look fully united.

tbh no one really cares about whatever the hell party that is, because it is less relevant than the Peace and Freedom Party

Some people will catch the reference.

[Alexander Hamilton]

This makes the PS look fully united.

tbh no one really cares about whatever the hell party that is, because it is less relevant than the Peace and Freedom Party

Some people will catch the reference.

But an overwhelming majority won't.

[Hash]

This makes the PS look fully united.

tbh no one really cares about whatever the hell party that is, because it is less relevant than the Peace and Freedom Party

Some people will catch the reference.

But an overwhelming majority won't.

Meh, too bad for them.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Holy, I don't even know where to being, but I think it is important, as the only person in this party who supports BOTH Hamilton and Rowan to speak on this matter.

As you all know, I have a lot of problems with this party, and the biggest problem that I have is that we are not all on the same page, and apparently I am more right than I thought.  First of all, while I certainly have had some disagreements with PiT as of late, I would not say we are anything close to "at war".

As for the Hamilton/Rowan issue, you guys both are at fault.  Hamilton, all I hear from you is about wanting to win and wanting a unified right, but then when Rowan asks to be in the party again, and I made it clear getting 1st preferences from us was anything but a shoo-in, you freak out.  Do you honestly think that I like every person in this party?  Of course not, but I don't create a 300 post thread because of it.  I usually make it known, but I still support them for a common good.  Everyone knows that I rather someone besides Tmth was our Mideast senator, but I'm not going to refuse to endorse him.

Rowan also needs to realize that Hamilton has done a lot of good for this party, especially while he was gone.  Everyone needs to just take it down a notch and bury the hachet until Ocotber is over.

On the name change, I vote Nay

[Marokai Backbeat]

and I made it clear getting 1st preferences from us was anything but a shoo-in,

Well, obviously, you being the leader and everythi-

Hey, wait a minute!

[Rowan]

I never said he didn't. I just have a major problem with his constant harassment.

[Fritz]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=103196.0

[afleitch]

If you cannot reconcile these differences then you could consider splitting. It may create two parties, but two parties who know where they stand and can have a better working relationship with each other as a result.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I may suggest that we create a seperate thread for voting as votes are easily lost in this jumble.  After this vote, I ask for a vote on the following by-law:

Member in Good Standing Clause

In order to vote on internal RPP matters, one must be a member of the RPP for at least two weeks or receive an exemption from the chair.

[Sewer]

Member in Good Standing Clause

In order to vote on internal RPP matters, one must be a member of the RPP for at least two weeks or receive an exemption from the chair.

NAYNAYNAYNAYNAYNAY.

[big bad fab]

Having a quiet weekend with my family,

I come back and this...

Well,

1) PLEASE, my friends, just ignore posts from the outside that are NOT relevant to the convention.
Otherwise, we cannot read this thread.
TBH, I haven't read it entirely... I don't want to waste my time.

And I remind you that I've voted for Milwaukee... young, modern, "enemy" city which shows we are open and ready to "conquer" and which is the big city of our presidential candidate's state.

2) The RPP must change its name to show that a new era is on.

To be clear, the party isn't any longer DWTL's little toy.
It wants to be open, serious, efficient, without useless harassment,
but sticks to its conservative values (responsibility, family, fiscal conservatism, public order, etc), to regional powers, to openness on social problems, to realism and clarity in foreign politics.

A name is either an acronym, easy to remember, or a way to give your platform in a nutshell.
Liberal conservative may sound weird, but it's what we are.

So,
- either there is a clear vote, organized by our chairman and/or our vice-chairs, first asking for ideas (at most, one from each REAL member of the RPP), then submitting them to vote;
in this case, I can already suggest, as acronyms easy to remember:
Conservative Atlasians Network (CAN)
Moderate Atlasians Network (MAN)
Civic Atlasian Network (CAN)
Democratic, Responsible, Empowering Atlasian Movement (DREAM)
Free, Responsible, Empowering, Eco-friendly Atlasia (FREE Atlasia)
(and ready to pick only one when time has come to make official proposals)

- or it's only a vote (organized by our chair and/or our vice-chairs) AYE/NO on the proposal "Liberal Conservative Party",

and I would say AYE.

Then would come a vote on the banner (2 fine proposals were put forward).

3) On the endorsements, please organize a new and clean vote.

I would say Tmth in Mideast, NC Yank in Southeast, NiK in Pacific, dead0man in Midwest, and, personally, I must abstain on the Northeast, just to be coherent.

Again, the RPP isn't DWTL. It has recently suffered from this image. The RPP isn't posting immediately to answer any stupid post that is just here to provoke, to trouble its image, to waste its members' time. The RPP isn't trolling.
The RPP isn't engaging fake "debates" with irrelevant forumers (Sewer Socialist or others) or with forumers that are just political opponents and will remain whatever the number of posts (opebo, Marokai, bgwah, Lief or even Al, Xahar, who know I respect them in the forum but who are just opponents in Atlasia, that's the game).

So, please, everybody, Hamilton and the others, all of us, don't behave like DWTL recently or the new party wouldn't be useful.

Thanks for your attention.

[Sewer]

I motion that this to be the logo:

[DownWithTheLeft]

The idea that was party was ever a toy of mine was ridiculous.  Equally ridiculous is that this party is going to abandon the ideals it has stood for for over a year because a new member wants us to.  This isn't the party of DWTL, but it is the party of the ideals that myself and others held when we started it. 

What is hurting our party right now is the idea that we vote on everything and don't have a small group of leaders making most decision and only leaving the big ones up to an open vote.  Do you see the JCP lacking a strong leader?  Or even the DA for that matter.  There is a reason the RPP is so successful, and that is the leadership over the past year has made it that way.  The newer members of the party need to understand that concept before we can truly grow and become more powerful.

[afleitch]

What is hurting our party right now is the idea that we vote on everything and don't have a small group of leaders making most decision and only leaving the big ones up to an open vote. 

Any democratic party can maintain a strong leadership and hold democratic votes involving the membership. They should not be run by 'clique'. If votes=change to the status quo then any party has to deal with that and progress accordingly.

[DownWithTheLeft]

What is hurting our party right now is the idea that we vote on everything and don't have a small group of leaders making most decision and only leaving the big ones up to an open vote. 

Any democratic party can maintain a strong leadership and hold democratic votes involving the membership. They should not be run by 'clique'. If votes=change to the status quo then any party has to deal with that and progress accordingly.

I agree that a major issue such as a party name change should be voted on, but every little decision cannot be brought a full blown vote.  It stalls the party from working.  That is why there is a private forum, if you disagree with a decision you can voice your concern there to the whole party. 

My point was also more that there is a huge "lolz" when I hear that this party is going to move to a new era away from current leadership.

[afleitch]

What is hurting our party right now is the idea that we vote on everything and don't have a small group of leaders making most decision and only leaving the big ones up to an open vote. 

Any democratic party can maintain a strong leadership and hold democratic votes involving the membership. They should not be run by 'clique'. If votes=change to the status quo then any party has to deal with that and progress accordingly.

I agree that a major issue such as a party name change should be voted on, but every little decision cannot be brought a full blown vote.  It stalls the party from working.  That is why there is a private forum, if you disagree with a decision you can voice your concern there to the whole party. 

My point was also more that there is a huge "lolz" when I hear that this party is going to move to a new era away from current leadership.

But why not? Partines in real life do change. If the RPP has remained 'a constant' for a year that can be a strength but also a weakness; particularly as Atlasian politics moves far faster than the real world. Parties (and the game) gain and loose members, have new ideas etc. When you have a party leadership with a tradition of controlling the pace of change within a party and it's attitude to other parties, other ideas then of course the party membership are going to get restless.

[Brandon H]

I'll second DWTL's two week requirement.

[DownWithTheLeft]

But why not? Partines in real life do change. If the RPP has remained 'a constant' for a year that can be a strength but also a weakness; particularly as Atlasian politics moves far faster than the real world. Parties (and the game) gain and loose members, have new ideas etc. When you have a party leadership with a tradition of controlling the pace of change within a party and it's attitude to other parties, other ideas then of course the party membership are going to get restless.

You seem to missing the point I am making.  None of the changes that have been brought forth have anything to do with the changing face of Atlasia.  The changes that some of the newer members desire is buying into the JCP talking points that new RPP members need to revolt and overthrow the old guard.  I can see why they would want this, the key to any succesful party like their own is the old guard leadership coupled with new members serving in office and getting their feet wet to someday become the old guard.

I have no problem with change fro the better, I have problem with change for the sake of change from members who have no idea what they are talking about

[Sewer]

I would like access to the super secret forum.

[Duke 🇺🇸]

Considering how much SewerSocialist has spammed this thread, I support it as well.

Also, I want to add that I think the name change isn't such a terrible idea, butbi wonder if it's just changing the name just for the sake of changing. If it does allow us to appeal to a wider audience, then fine. It just seems so trivial though. 

One thing on public debate: we do debate things like this in public, but no other party debates things in public to the extent that some request the RPP to do. The JCP doesn't and neither does the DA. I could argue they are even more closed off than we are.

[Sewer]

Considering how much SewerSocialist has spammed this thread, I support it as well.

Also, I want to add that I think the name change isn't such a terrible idea, butbi wonder if it's just changing the name just for the sake of changing. If it does allow us to appeal to a wider audience, then fine. It just seems so trivial though. 

One thing on public debate: we do debate things like this in public, but no other party debates things in public to the extent that some request the RPP to do. The JCP doesn't and neither does the DA. I could argue they are even more closed off than we are.

The LNF dous.