Northeast Assembly Thread

[Barnes]

We only need Rep. RockefellerRepublican to vote, and I can go ahead and end the voe. Can someone PM him?

[Barnes]

The Ayes are Seven, the Nays are zero, the Amendment has passed.

[Barnes]

Northeast initiative for ethics in voting

Whereas :
- The action of asking people that absolutely don't take part in Atlasian politics to vote for one candidate in order to serve one person's political interest is a clear threat for democracy.
- Recent events permitted to put on light how common said practices have become.
- Northeast Region is particularly concerned by said practices.
- The absence of specific legislation on this domain at the federal level is the main cause of said practices.

The Northeast Legislative Assembly states that :
- Zombie voting is not welcome in the Northeast Region, and shall be fought by every legal mean.
- Every elected official of the Northeast Region shall be exemplary on this domain, for example resigning from his/her office if he/she considers that his/her election was due to zombie voters.
- The Northeast Region officially urges the Senate to pass a law that will restrict voting rights to people who really take part in Atlasia outside voting booths.

Sponsor: Rep. AntonioV

The Questions is Shall the Bill be Considered?

Those is favor, say Aye, those opposed, No.

The Ayes have it.

The Sponsor,  Antonio V, has the floor.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Motion to table. Sorry, Antonio, but this bill doesn't do anything and we need to get to the legislation in the queue that will make an impact on the average Northeasterner.

I'd be willing to work on creating separate voting requirements for our region independent of the SoFA office, but this resolution is quite pointless.

[cinyc]

Why don't we let Antonio explain the bill first?

I have serious concerns about the last paragraph.  Not everyone who votes is going to be able to meaningfully participate on the Atlas Fantasy Elections boards.  There aren't enough elective seats - nor should they be.  Citizens shouldn't be penalized for being passive. 

[Alexander Hamilton]

Besides, in real life, most voters don't follow politics at all. They still get to vote. That's part of campaigning, and probably the fun part-- talking to voters about your record, working on the undecideds, and basically escaping the stupid, cliquey atmosphere of this board.

[gregusodenus]

I hope I am not stepping across any guidelines, but I have input on the Northeast initiative for Ethics in Voting. I believe that this initiative, although with good intentions, does nothing to combat the problem at hand. It recognizes a problem, but provides no regional law against the problem. Until we take stronger action, and take this issue out of the hands of the Federal Gov't, nothing will get done.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I hope I am not stepping across any guidelines, but I have input on the Northeast initiative for Ethics in Voting. I believe that this initiative, although with good intentions, does nothing to combat the problem at hand. It recognizes a problem, but provides no regional law against the problem. Until we take stronger action, and take this issue out of the hands of the Federal Gov't, nothing will get done.

You can comment here, but I already acknowledged that.

[gregusodenus]

I hope I am not stepping across any guidelines, but I have input on the Northeast initiative for Ethics in Voting. I believe that this initiative, although with good intentions, does nothing to combat the problem at hand. It recognizes a problem, but provides no regional law against the problem. Until we take stronger action, and take this issue out of the hands of the Federal Gov't, nothing will get done.

You can comment here, but I already acknowledged that.

I just wanted to get my two cents in. I wanted to make it clear that I support the intention of this bill, but also describe how I want bills to be passed that have some practical use.

[Barnes]

I hope I am not stepping across any guidelines, but I have input on the Northeast initiative for Ethics in Voting. I believe that this initiative, although with good intentions, does nothing to combat the problem at hand. It recognizes a problem, but provides no regional law against the problem. Until we take stronger action, and take this issue out of the hands of the Federal Gov't, nothing will get done.

You can comment here, but I already acknowledged that.

I just wanted to get my two cents in. I wanted to make it clear that I support the intention of this bill, but also describe how I want bills to be passed that have some practical use.

You're welcome to post your thoughts in the Assembly! We are Servants of the people!

[Dr. Cynic]

You can comment here, but I already acknowledged that.

Assembly is open to all Northeastern residents...

I would like to support this bill, but I would like Antonio to explain to me how a Representative is bound to resign because inactive voters voted for them... I hope he can better explain it to me.

[Alexander Hamilton]

bump for antonio

[Antonio the Sixth]

Fellow Representatives,

We are certainly at a determinating point of Atlasian History, and while it's late enough to see what will be Atlasia if we do nothing, it still isn't too late to do something. But this "something" shall be done now, now or never.
Some people, coming from the right as well as the left, used to the Atlasian political system and very proud to consider themselves as "bosses", have slightly built obscure systems of realtionships with other people, in order to control the game more and more. The same process that led to the birth of a mafia in so many countries is now happening in Atlasia. When this process started, I wasn't even here, but at the time people couldn't realize the danger it was going to represent. Now, these big coalitions are able to recruit dozens of users, who will vote for the candidate one man wants to be elected.
You can tell me that what I'm saying is purely democratic, that in fact nobody can't win without a clear and real popular support, that the actions of these interest groups aren't so relevant. Senator RowanBrandon proudly proved us the contrary. We now know that someone, someone who was twice candidate to the presidency, considered himself powerful enough to say "I will ensure that ____ will be elected". This man is still here, still a respected member of the second largest party. But the point is that he's not the only one. A former President recently admitted to have used "some practices" in order to influentiate election results.
Now, here is the point. Rowan was condemned for telling people the truth. There are laws in Atlasia to punish people who reveal a fraud, and there is no law to punish people who practice fraud. That's why we need one, and soon. At this point of the game, a strong majority of users can still revolt and say "We don't want this kind of Atlasia !". In some moths, maybe one year, zombie voters will be more numerous than real voters, and we'll all be powerless. Elections will just be races for the one who gathers the most zombies, and people will lose all sort of interest for the game. That's why someone needs to do the first step, and I've decided to be this one.
Before concluding, I'd like to make a precision of what is a "zombie voter", since some people seem to take advantage of the legitimate indignation of Atlasian people to attack anyone for being a zombie. Someone who is recruited by an older Atlasian isn't necessarily a zombie. I'm sure some of you were recruited for a particular election, and then decided to involve in Atlasian politcs. I am in this case. The only thing that matters is what people do after being recruited. If you just vote as the person told to do, and then absolutely don't care of what happens in Atlasia, then you're a zombies. All those who act so deserve nothing but our contempt, since they are self-consenting pawns. It's only this category of people that needs to be excluded, and not the newbies, who to the contrary can bring a lot to Atlasia.
Now, I'd like to respond to the objections that have been formulated recently. First of all, saying that we need to focus on problems affecting the "average Atlasian" is populism. The first duty of a legislator is to protect its democracy and ensure it will not die. If we don't, we're either cowards or corrupts. Now the main argument pointed out is that these practices are normal in any demoracy and shall be tolerated. We could say it sometimes ago, when zombie voting was a marginal practice. That's not the case anymore. Just imagine if, in the USA, half of the voters were entirely controlled by their partie's political machine, never looking at the news, not caring about the reality, not even knowing who is the guy they are voting for... Just imagine half of the voters were recruited by an influent member of the Dem or the GOP and are ready to do whatever he tells them to do. Wouldn't you do something ?
A last clarification : As I mentioned, this bill shall be considered as a first step of a long and difficult democratic process. It's not, properly speaking, a Bil, but just a declaration of intent. All that is written here hasn't any effective power, meaning that Reps will still be allowed to do whatever they want. This is a solemn delcaration stating that, in the battle that will soon oppose true democrats to pawns and puppetmasters, the Northeast sides with the democracy. Some of you told me that they would like us to go farther, and propose a real bill. I will answer that this issue is a regional government's issue, in which the only power of regions is speaking their minds. Clearly speaking, voting a bill against zombie voting in the NE will be twice unconstitutional, for both the NE and the Atlasian consititution. Only a federal amendment may deal with this issue, and that's why this declaration enjoins the Senate to pass one soon.
We are at a tipping point, fellow Reps., and now the future of Atlasia depends to you. Not all of you, but each of you, at the moment when you will cast your vote in favor or in opposition to this declaration. The future will judge us, and your next vote will certainly contribute to determinate this judgement.

[Alexander Hamilton]

It's a bit hard to build that case as a JCP member. There are the largest perpetrators.

[Dr. Cynic]

Representative Antonio, I must confess originally I was leaning in support of the measure, however, after some thought I am leaning against. The reason being is that while I sympathize with its intent, I don't know that it will truly accomplish anything. Our actions may do nothing in the Senate and this will be a waste of time. So, I'm hoping that you can convince me otherwise...

[cinyc]

Thank you, Antonio.

I reiterate my concern about the last paragraph of your bill.  Not everyone who votes is going to be able to meaningfully participate on the Atlas Fantasy Elections boards.   How are we to differentiate between the non-participating posters and zombies?  Someone named Torie - one of the most respected posters on the Atlas Forum - a zombie because he hadn't posted the Altas Fantasy Elections forums recently.  That makes no sense, and the last paragraph seems over-inclusive.

As to the second-to-last paragraph, I've recruited nobody, and have no way of knowing whether someone who votes for me is a zombie.  The last election wasn't competitive, so zombies weren't an issue.  The upcoming December elections may be more competitive.  If I decide to run for reelection and somehow win, how am I supposed to know if I should resign - especially when we're using PR-STV voting, and I may be some light-posting constituent's third or fourth choice?

[Dr. Cynic]

I would like to offer the following amendment to my esteemed collegue and friend's initiative. This will make the statement more palatable and more in line with a realistic goal:

Northeast initiative for ethics in voting

Whereas :
- The action of asking people that absolutely don't take part in Atlasian politics to vote for one candidate in order to serve one person's political interest is a clear threat for democracy.
- Recent events permitted to put on light how common said practices have become.
- Northeast Region is particularly concerned by said practices.
- The absence of specific legislation on this domain at the federal level is the main cause of said practices.

The Northeast Legislative Assembly states that:
- Zombie voting is not welcome in the Northeast Region, and shall be fought by every legal mean.
- Every elected official of the Northeast Region shall be exemplary on this domain, for example resigning from his/her office if he/she considers that his/her election was due to zombie voters.
- The Northeast Region officially urges the Senate to pass a law that will restrict voting rights to people who really take part in Atlasia outside voting booths.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Still can't support. I don't want to see the whole nation purged, leaving, what, 20 people? Come on.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Thank you, Antonio.

I reiterate my concern about the last paragraph of your bill.  Not everyone who votes is going to be able to meaningfully participate on the Atlas Fantasy Elections boards.   How are we to differentiate between the non-participating posters and zombies?  Someone named Torie - one of the most respected posters on the Atlas Forum - a zombie because he hadn't posted the Altas Fantasy Elections forums recently.  That makes no sense, and the last paragraph seems over-inclusive.

To the contrary, I tried to make it as precise and catious as possible. Only a poster who never takes part in Atlasia shall be considered as a zombie, which Torie obviously isn't. The text of tthis "bill" doesn't say anything else.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Again, you have your own discretion for that. Nobody will force you to resign and nobody will decide who is or not a zombie.

[fezzyfestoon]

While I understand and respect the intent of the legislation, I can't see myself supporting it in any form.  Not only is it far too ambiguous, it's just not realistic.  "Mafias" as you put it have always existed in Atlasia and will continue to exist as long as Atlasia does.  Sure, we can go ahead and say we don't like it, but the odds are half the people voting yes will have been involved in some tactics deemed inappropriate by this legislation.  I cannot tell you how many times I was recruited to vote by Atlasians from every party while I was inactive for the last year.  And when every vote counts for so much, the potential for corruption increases exponentially.  It's the way it works here and vocalizing our opposition to it would be one of the most vacuous efforts in Northeast history.

[Antonio the Sixth]

While I understand and respect the intent of the legislation, I can't see myself supporting it in any form.  Not only is it far too ambiguous, it's just not realistic.  "Mafias" as you put it have always existed in Atlasia and will continue to exist as long as Atlasia does.  Sure, we can go ahead and say we don't like it, but the odds are half the people voting yes will have been involved in some tactics deemed inappropriate by this legislation.  I cannot tell you how many times I was recruited to vote by Atlasians from every party while I was inactive for the last year.  And when every vote counts for so much, the potential for corruption increases exponentially.  It's the way it works here and vocalizing our opposition to it would be one of the most vacuous efforts in Northeast history.

So, let's make nothing because this would be useless anyways ?
Either we try to solve something, or at least to claim our oppositon, or we quietly assist as spectator to the game's takeover. I don't want to be of those who do nothing just because they think it will be useless. The only question you should ask yourself is "Is it right ?" and not "Is it useful" ?

And BTW, I shall reject Dr. Cinyc's Amendment, which I consider will empty the whole declaration.

[Dr. Cynic]

Without the amendment, I cannot support it. It's just not a realistic expectation, even if it passes this body, to think that the Senate would pass something along those lines. I don't know what it would do. It's so ambiguous. I like your intent, just not this particular initiative.

As much as I would like to see something done here... It just can't happen with this one, my friend.

[Barnes]

Without the amendment, I cannot support it. It's just not a realistic expectation, even if it passes this body, to think that the Senate would pass something along those lines. I don't know what it would do. It's so ambiguous. I like your intent, just not this particular initiative.

As much as I would like to see something done here... It just can't happen with this one, my friend.

Will you still keep your Amendment on the Floor? if you do, then we'll have to vote on it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Without the amendment, I cannot support it. It's just not a realistic expectation, even if it passes this body, to think that the Senate would pass something along those lines. I don't know what it would do. It's so ambiguous. I like your intent, just not this particular initiative.

As much as I would like to see something done here... It just can't happen with this one, my friend.

Will you still keep your Amendment on the Floor? if you do, then we'll have to vote on it.

That's probably the right thing to do.

[Barnes]

I open up a vote on the Amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. Voting lasts twenty-four hours.

Northeast initiative for ethics in voting

Whereas :
- The action of asking people that absolutely don't take part in Atlasian politics to vote for one candidate in order to serve one person's political interest is a clear threat for democracy.
- Recent events permitted to put on light how common said practices have become.
- Northeast Region is particularly concerned by said practices.
- The absence of specific legislation on this domain at the federal level is the main cause of said practices.

The Northeast Legislative Assembly states that:
- Zombie voting is not welcome in the Northeast Region, and shall be fought by every legal mean.
- Every elected official of the Northeast Region shall be exemplary on this domain, for example resigning from his/her office if he/she considers that his/her election was due to zombie voters.
- The Northeast Region officially urges the Senate to pass a law that will restrict voting rights to people who really take part in Atlasia outside voting booths.

Proposed by: Rep. Doctor Cynic