Northeast Assembly Thread
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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 377549 times)
Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #575 on: November 04, 2009, 08:38:34 PM »

Has his revolution succeeded?
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Barnes
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« Reply #576 on: November 04, 2009, 08:39:22 PM »

The vote is to open debate, under emergency procedings, yes? So one can oppose the Motion but vote in favour of the question in order to debate the motion?

Actually, this is a final vote. That's how I read his post, anyway.

That's how I read it, too, hence the question marks - since my vote will be different depending on whether this is a final vote or a motion to debate, I need the clarification before voting.

This is a final vote. I'm doing this because of the word "Emergency". But I'd love to hear your opinion. Smiley
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Smid
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« Reply #577 on: November 04, 2009, 08:48:38 PM »

The vote is to open debate, under emergency procedings, yes? So one can oppose the Motion but vote in favour of the question in order to debate the motion?

Actually, this is a final vote. That's how I read his post, anyway.

That's how I read it, too, hence the question marks - since my vote will be different depending on whether this is a final vote or a motion to debate, I need the clarification before voting.

This is a final vote. I'm doing this because of the word "Emergency". But I'd love to hear your opinion. Smiley

My opinion is that you can rule either way on this and that if there is dissent in the Chair's ruling, it can be challenged by the Legislature and put to a vote. I don't think it matters much either way and I for one won't be challenging the Chair's ruling.


(In my opinion, not necessary, but the procedural way of dealing with a challenge to the ruling would be):
The motion there would be "That the Chair's Ruling be dissented from" - to that question, a vote of Aye would be to open debate on the motion and a vote of Nay would be to uphold the Chair's ruling to proceed straight to final vote.
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Smid
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« Reply #578 on: November 04, 2009, 08:52:50 PM »

For the final vote on the Motion being considered:

Nay.

We have seen a hostile invasion of a free Atlasian state. The terrorists who have seized power are holding innocent Atlasian citizens hostage. Until there are free and fair elections in New Mexico to determine the issue of self-governance, we cannot and should not recognise the independent governance of the state. If a majority of citizens residing in New Mexico support self-governance, we should of course support their desire, however until a free and fair referendum is held in the state, we must consider it occupied Atlasian territory.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #579 on: November 04, 2009, 08:53:14 PM »

Having played a quick game of catch up with the situation, although I strongly disapprove of the federal government's use of federal troops without the Senate's consent, I must stand by my gut feelings in the situation. Should the New Mexicans succeed, then I will support recognition.

Until then, my vote is NAY.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #580 on: November 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM »

Nay, definitely.
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cinyc
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« Reply #581 on: November 05, 2009, 01:05:09 AM »

Nay
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #582 on: November 05, 2009, 01:27:42 AM »

Nay

Standing with a paramilitary movement fighting against a democratically elected regional government makes no sense.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #583 on: November 05, 2009, 01:48:27 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #584 on: November 05, 2009, 01:59:08 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.

I am following what I would do in the real life situation. That is, any attempt to dismember the union, I would not support.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #585 on: November 05, 2009, 02:00:44 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.

I am following what I would do in the real life situation. That is, any attempt to dismember the union, I would not support.

Okay, but there wouldn't be a RANM in real life either. Tongue

I just think it's useless to even have the GM do these things if nothing interesting is going to be done with it.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #586 on: November 05, 2009, 02:06:42 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.

I am following what I would do in the real life situation. That is, any attempt to dismember the union, I would not support.

Okay, but there wouldn't be a RANM in real life either. Tongue

I just think it's useless to even have the GM do these things if nothing interesting is going to be done with it.

Yes... But what would become of the Northeast?
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #587 on: November 05, 2009, 02:08:20 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.

I am following what I would do in the real life situation. That is, any attempt to dismember the union, I would not support.

Okay, but there wouldn't be a RANM in real life either. Tongue

I just think it's useless to even have the GM do these things if nothing interesting is going to be done with it.

Yes... But what would become of the Northeast?

That's what we'd find out, isn't it? Wink
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #588 on: November 05, 2009, 02:14:03 AM »

Fine. Keep the game boring... There's just gonna be a bunch of useless posts about some supposed crisis that will actually have no effect on the game at-large and there be irrelevant and not spice thing sup, but seeing as that seems to be what people want...

Seriously, why do we have a GM that creates events? Just to read about supposed troops entering some place? I mean, let's do some sh**t with this event.

I am following what I would do in the real life situation. That is, any attempt to dismember the union, I would not support.

Okay, but there wouldn't be a RANM in real life either. Tongue

I just think it's useless to even have the GM do these things if nothing interesting is going to be done with it.

Yes... But what would become of the Northeast?

That's what we'd find out, isn't it? Wink

I'd rather protect the interests of the most populous region in the country. I'd like to protect the interests of my constituents, and I'd like to keep from being branded a traitor or a supporter of traitors. I'd be glad if this thing played out well, but I'll not see us be pulled into it at the moment.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #589 on: November 05, 2009, 10:24:43 AM »

So, let me try to get this straight... we're voting on whether or not we support a terrorist movement to break up our union?

...um.

Nay?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #590 on: November 05, 2009, 12:42:45 PM »

Fellow Representatives,

After having reflected about the consequences of recent Amendment to the Amendment proposed by Cinyc (at school Tongue), I started to fear about the possibility that just two members not voting could block any veto override, what I find dangerous.
That's why, I've decided to propose an Amendment, that I hope will be considered as friendy.


Article IV, Section xi is hereby amended as follows:

xi) The Governor has veto power over any piece of legislation that the Northeast Assembly shall successfully vote in favour of. The Governor may not have the power to only veto parts as opposed to the whole of any legislation. The Governor is required to sign all pieces of legislation he supports into law after it passes a successful vote in the Legislative Assembly, within one week of its passing. Once he or she has signed the legislation, it immediately becomes law unless otherwise stated in the legislation itself. If the Governor does not sign the successful legislation after one week, than it becomes law immediately.

Article V is hereby amended by insertion as new Section xv:

xv) The Assembly shall have the power to override the Governor's veto.  If the Assembly passes legislation previously vetoed by the Governor by a more than two-thirds majority vote, with at least half of the total number of Reps voting in favor, it becomes law without the Governor's signature.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #591 on: November 05, 2009, 12:57:38 PM »

I already offered that amendment, Antonio. Smiley
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #592 on: November 05, 2009, 01:19:17 PM »

I'm offering this amendment:

xv) The Assembly shall have the power to override the Governor's veto.  If the Assembly passes legislation previously vetoed by the Governor by a more than two-thirds majority vote, it becomes law without the Governor's signature.

This is almost the same, but didn't take into account the "turnout" objection, which I consider to make sense. Could I ask Rep Cinyc which version he prefers ?
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #593 on: November 05, 2009, 01:23:49 PM »

I'm offering this amendment:

xv) The Assembly shall have the power to override the Governor's veto.  If the Assembly passes legislation previously vetoed by the Governor by a more than two-thirds majority vote, it becomes law without the Governor's signature.

This is almost the same, but didn't take into account the "turnout" objection, which I consider to make sense. Could I ask Rep Cinyc which version he prefers ?

The main reason I oppose turn out objections are because they allow for a filibuster of sorts.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #594 on: November 05, 2009, 01:27:09 PM »

I'm offering this amendment:

xv) The Assembly shall have the power to override the Governor's veto.  If the Assembly passes legislation previously vetoed by the Governor by a more than two-thirds majority vote, it becomes law without the Governor's signature.

This is almost the same, but didn't take into account the "turnout" objection, which I consider to make sense. Could I ask Rep Cinyc which version he prefers ?

The main reason I oppose turn out objections are because they allow for a filibuster of sorts.

First of all, we need to find a compromise, all the more so that's a constitutionnal amendment. Secondly, my turnout restriction is absolutely reasonable, and in normal times allows to override vetos with a 3-1 majority.
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cinyc
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« Reply #595 on: November 05, 2009, 02:24:45 PM »

I'm offering this amendment:

xv) The Assembly shall have the power to override the Governor's veto.  If the Assembly passes legislation previously vetoed by the Governor by a more than two-thirds majority vote, it becomes law without the Governor's signature.

This is almost the same, but didn't take into account the "turnout" objection, which I consider to make sense. Could I ask Rep Cinyc which version he prefers ?

Well, I've tried to open this up for discussion because I'm largely agnostic about it.  On the one hand, I'd like to force all members to vote on everything - especially a veto override.  On the other hand, I realize that's not always realistic.

The best way to deal with it might be to add "more than" to the constitutional language and create a quorum requirement in the SOAP (or the Constitution, if necessary)- for ALL bills.  There should NEVER be a bill that passes without a vote of less than half our members.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #596 on: November 05, 2009, 02:34:50 PM »

The best way to deal with it might be to add "more than" to the constitutional language and create a quorum requirement in the SOAP (or the Constitution, if necessary)- for ALL bills.  There should NEVER be a bill that passes without a vote of less than half our members.

Agreed, 100%.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #597 on: November 05, 2009, 03:15:16 PM »

It's not realistic to expect every member to be able to vote on everything before the body. Real life does sometimes interfere. I strongly support the turnout amendment to the bill. It's the only realistic way to do it.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #598 on: November 05, 2009, 04:02:08 PM »

The best way to deal with it might be to add "more than" to the constitutional language and create a quorum requirement in the SOAP (or the Constitution, if necessary)- for ALL bills.  There should NEVER be a bill that passes without a vote of less than half our members.

Agreed, 100%.

No. either 100% or no "quorum." Come on, all that does is open the door ofor legislative tactics that change how legislation is actually voted on. I want the chance to vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. i don't want to worry about whether or not to vote at all due to a quorum. If there are 3 votes in favor and 1 Nay, and I vote Nay, that passes the bill. or I could just not vote. That doesn't relaly benefit the legislative body, though.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #599 on: November 05, 2009, 09:49:48 PM »

The best way to deal with it might be to add "more than" to the constitutional language and create a quorum requirement in the SOAP (or the Constitution, if necessary)- for ALL bills.  There should NEVER be a bill that passes without a vote of less than half our members.

Agreed, 100%.

But it's not realistic to think that can happen all the time.
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