Northeast Assembly Thread
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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 377422 times)
cinyc
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« Reply #475 on: October 26, 2009, 05:40:16 PM »

Article V, Section 7 of the Constitution is amended as follows:
The number of Representatives shall be set by statute.

Well, we'd need a statute for the next election for that to work - but that formulation may be workable.

As a (hopefully friendly) amendment, I think "is amended as follows:" should be replaced by "is deleted and replaced by the following:" in EVERY formulation of the Seats Number Amendment - to make clear that we're getting rid of the old constitutional language.  Otherwise "is amended" could mean that we just add whatever we pass it to the end of Article V, Section vii).
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #476 on: October 26, 2009, 05:41:04 PM »

Yes, this is unfriendly. It seems that the battle is already lost but can not accept it just because you want to make it simpler. The argument "It's too complicated" makes no sense. As for zombies, people who want to use them will do whatever the system is.

It's not that it's too complex, it's that it's too unstable.  A legislative body needs some modicum of stability—people need to have a basic concept of how it works.  No one knew what the heck was going on after the last election, and that's a problem.

If you REALLY want the size of the Assembly tied to the size of the active population, allow for a periodic redistricting, say, twice a year.

Ok, I guess I'm not in position to impose my views.

Here is my proposal :


1. Article V Section vii) of the New Northeast Constitution is amended as follows :
2. Five Reps shall be elected. This provision can be amended by law every January and July if the Assembly considers it necessary.

I know this may sound stupid, since you proposed it, but is this friendly? Smiley

On behalf of Rep. Hamilton I have to communicate he'd accept this as a friendly only with 6 members

Yep, I support this.

1. Article V Section vii) of the New Northeast Constitution is hereby repealed. Its content shall be replaced by the following :
2. Six Reps shall be elected. This provision can be modified by law every January and July if the Assembly considers it necessary.
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cinyc
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« Reply #477 on: October 26, 2009, 05:45:47 PM »

The main problem I have with 6 seats is that it creates the likelihood of more ties and creates a problem for veto overrides since 2/3rds is the same as a majority, assuming all Reps vote. 

If we do go with 6 seats (or make it variable) I think we're going to have to peg veto overrides at "more than two-thirds" rather than "two-thirds".  That's the main reason I delayed the vote on the Veto Override Amendment until after we settled the Seats issue.

Can I ask other Assemblymen whether they'd prefer an Assembly of 5 or 6?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #478 on: October 26, 2009, 06:02:16 PM »

Technically, if exactly 2/3 of the reps vote for veto override, this shall be considered as a tie and therefore the Lt Gov would have to break it. This is quite simple.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #479 on: October 26, 2009, 06:09:06 PM »

I'm divided between 5 and 6
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cinyc
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« Reply #480 on: October 26, 2009, 06:20:02 PM »

Technically, if exactly 2/3 of the reps vote for veto override, this shall be considered as a tie and therefore the Lt Gov would have to break it. This is quite simple.

The proposed amendment says "by a two-thirds majority vote" - which means a vote of 4 out of 6 should be sufficient to override.  The Lt. Governor shouldn't be involved in veto overrides - there should be no ties.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #481 on: October 26, 2009, 06:23:50 PM »

People need to be decently represented, and more reps we have, better it is. Plus, I don't want us to copy Mideast. Tongue


Technically, if exactly 2/3 of the reps vote for veto override, this shall be considered as a tie and therefore the Lt Gov would have to break it. This is quite simple.

The proposed amendment says "by a two-thirds majority vote" - which means a vote of 4 out of 6 should be sufficient to override.  The Lt. Governor shouldn't be involved in veto overrides - there should be no ties.

In this case, we've no constitutional problems. Wink
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #482 on: October 26, 2009, 06:25:16 PM »

It's not personal, Barnes, but I believe Lieutenant Governor should not be a presidig officer.

It's not good to perform at once executive and legislative duties.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #483 on: October 26, 2009, 06:30:24 PM »

The Lieutenant Governor is an unnecessary position.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #484 on: October 26, 2009, 06:35:44 PM »

The Lieutenant Governor is an unnecessary position.

No
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #485 on: October 26, 2009, 06:45:37 PM »

It's not personal, Barnes, but I believe Lieutenant Governor should not be a presidig officer.

It's not good to perform at once executive and legislative duties.

Well, since the Lt Gove has not any other important task, I think to the contrary that it's a good thing. Smiley Many democracies do this, and it doesn't absolutely harm the Assembly's freedom.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #486 on: October 26, 2009, 06:47:06 PM »

It's not personal, Barnes, but I believe Lieutenant Governor should not be a presidig officer.

It's not good to perform at once executive and legislative duties.

Well, since the Lt Gove has not any other important task, I think to the contrary that it's a good thing. Smiley Many democracies do this, and it doesn't absolutely harm the Assembly's freedom.

Lieutenant Governor should be assigned with some executive duties, not beig just "a guy heartbet away"
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #487 on: October 26, 2009, 07:30:58 PM »


Have you anything to say, or are all your ideas summed up in one word like this?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #488 on: October 26, 2009, 07:36:35 PM »


Have you anything to say, or are all your ideas summed up in one word like this?

I already wrote what I think about a role of lt. gov and what should it be

Please, learn to read the whole thread beforfe you start to mess with Assembly again

Thank you, sir Tongue
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #489 on: October 26, 2009, 08:09:01 PM »


Have you anything to say, or are all your ideas summed up in one word like this?

I already wrote what I think about a role of lt. gov and what should it be

Please, learn to read the whole thread beforfe you start to mess with Assembly again

Thank you, sir Tongue

I don't recall that post. Could you quote it?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #490 on: October 26, 2009, 08:19:47 PM »

It's not personal, Barnes, but I believe Lieutenant Governor should not be a presidig officer.

It's not good to perform at once executive and legislative duties.

Well, since the Lt Gove has not any other important task, I think to the contrary that it's a good thing. Smiley Many democracies do this, and it doesn't absolutely harm the Assembly's freedom.

Lieutenant Governor should be assigned with some executive duties, not beig just "a guy heartbet away"

It's not personal, Barnes, but I believe Lieutenant Governor should not be a presidig officer.

It's not good to perform at once executive and legislative duties.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #491 on: October 26, 2009, 09:05:46 PM »

You haven't explained why the Lieutenant Governorship should exist. The Mideast did away with theirs for a reason.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #492 on: October 26, 2009, 09:07:17 PM »

The Lt. Gov is supposed to be the person who puts passed legislation up on the Wiki.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #493 on: October 26, 2009, 09:35:35 PM »

The Lt. Gov is supposed to be the person who puts passed legislation up on the Wiki.

wiki is in horrible condition
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cinyc
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« Reply #494 on: October 26, 2009, 09:45:49 PM »

Yep, I support this.

1. Article V Section vii) of the New Northeast Constitution is hereby repealed. Its content shall be replaced by the following :
2. Six Reps shall be elected. This provision can be modified by law every January and July if the Assembly considers it necessary.

Would it make more sense to define when the provision can be modified by law by legislative session (i.e. "during the Legislative Assembly sessions starting in December and June") instead of a particular month (or perhaps not at all, per Xahar's suggestion)? 

Under the proposal, what if we pass something on January 30, the Governor vetoes it, and we can't override until February?  Is it still valid?
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #495 on: October 26, 2009, 10:01:35 PM »

The Lt. Gov is supposed to be the person who puts passed legislation up on the Wiki.

wiki is in horrible condition

Conor started putting stuff on the Wiki, but I think he just gave up.  I don't think we've had an LG work on the Wiki since then, and that was 2008.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #496 on: October 26, 2009, 10:02:17 PM »

Yep, I support this.

1. Article V Section vii) of the New Northeast Constitution is hereby repealed. Its content shall be replaced by the following :
2. Six Reps shall be elected. This provision can be modified by law every January and July if the Assembly considers it necessary.

Since there's no enough supoport for the 5 Reps and we need to lower the size, I shall support this as well
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #497 on: October 26, 2009, 10:31:29 PM »

Yep, I support this.

1. Article V Section vii) of the New Northeast Constitution is hereby repealed. Its content shall be replaced by the following :
2. Six Reps shall be elected. This provision can be modified by law every January and July if the Assembly considers it necessary.

Since there's no enough supoport for the 5 Reps and we need to lower the size, I shall support this as well

I will support this.
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Smid
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« Reply #498 on: October 26, 2009, 11:28:57 PM »

I think we should get rid of the "modified in January and July" element of the Bill and let the Legislature amend the Act at any time it sees the need, just like any other piece of legislation. If there's no need/support to change it, then it won't be changed and if there is a need/support for changes, then it should be changed regardless of what month it is.
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cinyc
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« Reply #499 on: October 26, 2009, 11:47:44 PM »

I think we should get rid of the "modified in January and July" element of the Bill and let the Legislature amend the Act at any time it sees the need, just like any other piece of legislation. If there's no need/support to change it, then it won't be changed and if there is a need/support for changes, then it should be changed regardless of what month it is.

So something like "Six Reps shall be elected, unless the Assembly shall provide otherwise by Law. " (which parallels the language in Article V, Section viii)?

I probably can live with that.
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