Northeast Assembly Thread

[cinyc]

Motion to extend debate 2-3 days.

Meaning what exactly?  Please specify a date and time when you'd like the debate to end.

[cinyc]

There's a motion on the floor to suspend Section 3(a) of the SOAP extend debate until  5:40PM Eastern on Tuesday, January 12, 2010.  

All those in favor shall say Aye, those opposed Nay, those who wish to abstain, Abstain.

This vote shall be held open until the earlier of 2:20AM Eastern on Saturday, January 9, 2010, or when all Northeast Representatives shall have voted.

Debate on the bill on the floor is allowed - and encouraged - during the vote on the motion.

[cinyc]

Aye, I guess, if the sponsor wants it.

[cinyc]

Aye

Saved from mod deletion.



By a vote of 6-2, including Hamilton's now-deleted vote,  the motion to extend debate until 5:40PM Eastern on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 passes.

Antonio V - you still have the floor to explain your bill.

[cinyc]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond earlier - I've been busy.

My main concern with this bill is that between the Economic Tax Recovery Act and Northeastern Home Ownership Protection Act, we've already spent the meager stimulus funds we've received from the Atlasian federal government.  We should have received more, but were allocated less due to changes to the original bill made by our regional senator - who should have been looking out for the interests of the Northeast.

The Northeast economy is getting better.  If anything, we should be looking at ways to balance our budget, not increase the deficit.

[cinyc]

why do we need a balanced budget?

Because otherwise we will go out of business.

Government is not a business, it can not go go out of business.

The Northeast can't print money.  Any debt service costs will have to come from the taxpayers, at the expense of something else.  Running a temporary deficit in a time of economic crisis is okay - for a very short period.  Turning that into a permanent structural deficit - or increasing the deficit when things are getting better - would be a huge problem.

[cinyc]

Am I correct in assuming Rep. Hamilton wants each amendment voted on separately?  If so, I will offer an amendment to Section 4, which I hope will be deemed friendly.  It's intended to clean up the language in case only some of the other proposed amendments pass:

Section 4 : Budget severity

The Any remaining $3 billions amount shall be integrated to the budget of the Northeast Region and used for normal functioning expenses.

[cinyc]

actually, let's do all of mine as one amendment. otherwise the math wont work out

Okay. 

The math would work if my amendment is deemed friendly, though. 

[cinyc]

I'm going to hold things open until 8PM so that Mr. Moderate and Antonio V can agree on language.  I don't want to put an amendment to a vote if I don't have to.

I will withdraw my amendment if not incorporated in Mr. Moderate's drafr.

We will commence a vote on Hamilton's unfriendly amendment - and any others - at 8PM.

[cinyc]

I WAS going to commence a vote on Hamilton's proposed amendments, but I can't find it because  the Mods DELETED MY POST QUOTING IT.  This is a HUGE infringement on MY rights to post whatever I want - I'm no troll and on no list, and an affront against this body.

I will be IMMEDIATELY seeking an injunction against the mods in Federal court.

[cinyc]

I will resign my seat if and only if the Governor first appoints segwaystyle2012 to replace me.

There is no need to resign your seat.   The mods aren't even Northeast citizens and have no business running this Assembly.

Please PM me your proposed amendment so I can put it on the floor. 

[cinyc]

I will resign my seat if and only if the Governor first appoints segwaystyle2012 to replace me.

There is no need to resign your seat.   The mods aren't even Northeast citizens and have no business running this Assembly.

Please PM me your proposed amendment so I can put it on the floor.  

I had it saved but erased once I saw you quoted it. Looks like I will have to start all over

I think general tone of your amendment was to delete sections 2 and 3 and reallocate the funds to the RFER in Section 1 - though you might have also changed the text of Section 1 a bit.

[cinyc]

I've been told the NE Assembly is a circus at the moment, so I took a peek. Carry on

Don't blame me or this Assembly.  The actions of the moderators have made it impossible to run anything.  Legitimate amendments get proposed by sitting members of this Assembly, then deleted by the mods.  This Assembly simply cannot function if I don't have the text of proposed Amendments to put to a vote.  Votes are getting deleted by the mods - how can I get an accurate vote count?  

The mods are making my job impossible.  We have no power to throw members of this Assembly out of office.  Reps. Hamilton and Libertas are still sitting members, still able to propose amendments, still entitled to vote.  

This situation is an absolute disgrace that doesn't reflect well on the mods - especially when they are deleting posts of the Speaker of the Assembly.  I am the furthest thing from a troll.  I've done nothing wrong.

Quite frankly, if this isn't resolved within the next few days, I will resign from this Assembly and Atlasia.   I don't need this crap.

[cinyc]

1) FWIW, I have a real big issue with the policy of deleting all posts made by posters defined as trolls (and creating such guidelines in the first place).  

2) I don't think it's successful because neither moderator or Dave Leip are on the board 24 hours a day and this encourages trolls to spam the boards during the times they aren't here because, well, they can get away with it.

3) Either you place a poster on mod review ("as a troll") such that legitimate posts get through but spamming is prevented or you ban the poster.

4) I think post moderation is becoming too overactive now because of the Post Moderation board, although it does make it easier to respond to complaints.  But seriously, should my post be deleted if I call NCYankee a schizophrenic or bipolar?  I don't think so, after all it is the truth and it's kinda funny too.

5) The reason why #1 and #4 are occurring is because Dave Leip refuses to engage in #3 and, as I have predicted and will continue to predict, most people will think him more unfair for engaging in #1 and #4 than if he had engaged in #3 to begin with.

6) Preventing moderators from deleting posts on these two boards is not the Supreme Court's responsibility which is why we denied your petition.

I respectfully disagree with your point 6.   The posts on this thread are posts of the Northeast Assembly.   They are vital to the functioning of Atlasia as a game, not like the rest of the stuff on this board other than the Mideast Assembly and NE Proposed Legislation threads.   The other posts on this board are commentary or polls or something else worth less to the game.   Unfortunately, the Northeast Legislature doesn't have its own board or sub-board, so we're left with moderation by default by the same moderators based on alleged transgressions in posts that have nothing to do with how Assemblymen conduct themselves in the legislature.  Mideast and Midwest residents shouldn't be dictating how the Northeast conducts its legislative business.  In an ideal world, the Lt. Governor or, in his absence (like right now), the Northeast Speaker would be responsible for controlling the debate on a separate Northeast Assembly board.
 
Speaking of which - Order! Northeast Representatives shall refrain from personal attacks in this Assembly!

[cinyc]

FTR, I oppose deleting cinyc posts, and I consider that as an useless abuse of power.
Anyways, could we please come back in topic ?

Yes.  Do you have an agreement with Rep. Mr. Moderate on the final text of the bill?  If so, I'd like to put it to a vote, seeing no unfriendly amendments on the floor.  Otherwise, I'm going to have to put Mr. Moderate's amendment on the floor.  Please post it ASAP.

Former Rep. Hamilton's proposed amendment is dead since I don't have the text and can't recreate it.

[cinyc]

I tend to favor Rep. Moderate's text overall. However, after I expressed some precise concerns, he said :

I'll revise my version of the bill a little later.

So, I'd wish to see Rep. Moderate's new revision to deem it as friendly.

If we can't do anything to extend the debate period, I will deem Mr Moderate's Amendment as friendly anyways.

I will hold off until 8PM tonight in hopes Mr. Moderate can finalize the language.

[cinyc]

The proceedings have been delayed long enough.  Since there's no agreement despite two extensions provided to get one, we will vote on Mr. Moderate's amendment as if it were unfriendly:
 

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This vote shall be held open until 8:10 PM on Thursday, January 14, 2010, unless all Representatives shall have voted sooner.  A vote on the final bill will proceed shortly thereafter.

[cinyc]

Aye to the amendment, because it cleans up the language. 

[cinyc]

By a vote of 5-1 with one absence, the amendment to the bill passes.  We will now vote on final passage of the bill, as amended:

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This vote shall be held open until 8:10 PM on Friday, January 15, 2010, unless all Representatives shall have voted sooner. 

[cinyc]

I also vote Nay on final passage.

[cinyc]

By a vote of 4-3 (including Libertas' vote, which was deleted by the moderators, who continue to censor my posts), the Northeast Economic Recovery Stimulus Act passes and will be presented to the Governor for his signature.

[cinyc]

Next matter:

Amendments to the SOAP for a faster legislative work

1. Section 3, subsection (a) of the SOAP is hereby amended to read : All proposed legislation shall be open for debate for no less than fourty-eight (48) hours after the Lt. Governor places it on the Northeast Assembly floor. The Lt. Governor shall have the authority to extend the debating period upon ask of any Representative. No extension of the debate period shall exceed 48 hours, and no shortening shall exceed 24 hours.
2. Section 3, subsection (f) of the SOAP is hereby amended to read : A final vote on the proposed legislation shall take place after the Lt. Governor certifies the vote on any proposed amendments (or, if there are no such amendments, at the end of the debate period). Such votes shall be open for twenty-four (24) hours, or until an absolute majority of all Representative has voted in favor of said legislation, if earlier. A piece of proposed legislation shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).
3. Section 3, subsection (h) of the SOAP is hereby repealed.

Sponsor: Rep. Antonio V

The question is whether the Amendment to the SOAP should be considered?

The ayes have it.

Debate on this bill will continue until at least 2:40PM Eastern on Sunday, January 17, 2010, unless the debate period is extended or shortened in accordance with the SOAP.

The Sponsor, Representative Antonio V, has the floor.

[cinyc]

For reference, the current text of the SOAP is here.

Section 3(h) states:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[cinyc]

I move strike your Section 2.  

Every representative should be entitled to go on record and vote, even if his or her vote is meaningless.   Waiting for a reasonable period to ensure that is the least we can do.  24 hours is reasonable, as most folks aren't on here every hour of the day and night.

I'm going to have to think whether deleting Section 3(h) has any unintended consequences.  On its face, it refers to Section 3(d), which you're not proposing to amend.

[cinyc]

36 hours presents a challenge for the chair.  If I start debate at 8PM, I'd have to end it at 8AM, and vice versa.  Most people who live in the eastern time zone are on their way to work or school at time - or already there.  Starting it during a lunch break in the afternoon, say at 1 or 2, would require a vote be open in the early morning, when most people are in bed.  Starting and ending at the same time of the day makes things easier to schedule - and less difficult to forget.

48 hours (or something close to it) works best from an administrative standpoint.  I propose you change 36 to 48.  The other changes are fine.

FYI - we can't repeal section (h) of the SOAP if we keep 3(d) and (f).  Instead, we need to amend it as follows:

(h) Any Representative may make a motion to suspend sections 3(a), 3(d) or 3(f) of this Standing Order to increase or decrease the time of the debate or voting period. The motion shall be immediately put to a vote on the Northeast Assembly floor. Such vote shall be open for twenty-four (24) hours, or until all Representatives have voted, if earlier. If the motion passes by a vote of the majority of all Representatives (with abstentions and absences counted as nay votes), the relevant period shall be changed.