Maine's Question 1

[Mechaman]

     If Maine rejects this proposition, I'll go L-ME for a week.

That's probably why the yes side won.

I'm doing it as a protest.

[Phony Moderate]

And to think that Maine voted for the libertarian Republican Arnold Vinick in The West Wing.

[Brittain33]

Then, the biblical definition of marriage is restored in Maine.

A moral values voter defends the sanctity of traditional marriage:

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=6032

(nsfw)

[Sam Spade]

I knew it was over when I saw the Lewiston results someone posted early on.

I should have paid more attention to this thread earlier in the evening cause your right.  The 60-40 Yes result there meant it was doomed.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

This is almost as good as last year's California: "Keep it straight...YES on 8!"

so, 47% of Maine is morally retrobate...sad news

Need I say that the pair of you are utter disgraces, a fact that cannot be overemphasised.

Rom 1:21-32
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Psa 1:1-3
 1 Blessed is the man
       who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
       or stand in the way of sinners
       or sit in the seat of mockers.

 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
       and on his law he meditates day and night.

 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
       which yields its fruit in season
       and whose leaf does not wither.
       Whatever he does prospers.

[Lunar]

Alright, I have to admit jmfcst, that was pretty damn darn convincing.  I think I'm gonna have to try this Christianity thing I keep hearing so much about, give it the 'ole whirl. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

53-47 is good and close.

Not sludging through this whole thread - someone care to repost a link to results?

I don't know where it be either. But someone posted a map:

Here is the county map:

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

This is almost as good as last year's California: "Keep it straight...YES on 8!"

so, 47% of Maine is morally retrobate...sad news

Need I say that the pair of you are utter disgraces, a fact that cannot be overemphasised.

Rom 1:21-32
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Psa 1:1-3
 1 Blessed is the man
       who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
       or stand in the way of sinners
       or sit in the seat of mockers.

 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
       and on his law he meditates day and night.

 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
       which yields its fruit in season
       and whose leaf does not wither.
       Whatever he does prospers.

1 No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry
   whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods,
   nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief.

[Lunar]

53-47 is good and close.

Not sludging through this whole thread - someone care to repost a link to results?

I don't know where it be either. But someone posted a map:

Here is the county map:

http://www.bangordailynews.com/electionresults.html

[Devilman88]

Oh wow.

Gays will be PISSED.

And rightfully so, as we've just democratized the right of personal freedom in this nation. And if you were remotely committed to the concept of small government as you pretend to be, you would be, too.

It's a state's right to define marriage.

No, it isn't. That's the point you dumbass New Rightists have never understood. It is the right of the institution which performs marriage to define it. If some sect wanted to perform a gay wedding, the State has no authority whatsoever to countermand that, because it is a private institution.

Wow, we agree on something!

[Franzl]

I for one am very pleased with the result making Tuesday a good day for the Conservative Movement.  We've got a Bible-believing governor in Virginia, NJ I'm not so sure about, and we have a pro-lifer in upstate New York.  Then, the biblical definition of marriage is restored in Maine.

Is everybody so damn ignorant in your bible-believing glorious hellhole Oklahoma?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

1 No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry
   whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods,
   nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief.

oh, I am not going to stop you from doing what you what.  go ahead and marry ten men...just don't ask me to recognize it

[Holmes]

No one's asking you to recognize it, in fact no one cares that you recognize anything cause you're irrelevant. This is about the state recognizing the marriages. And now I'm awaiting that you reply to me by quoting at least 10 Bible verses.

And I'm not gonna lie, I read Franzl's post, and saw the avatar, and thought it was our other favourite D-IL poster.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

No one's asking you to recognize it, in fact no one cares that you recognize anything cause you're irrelevant. This is about the state recognizing the marriages. And now I'm awaiting that you reply to me by quoting at least 10 Bible verses.

the state is an extension of the people, the people are an extension of the individual.  Sodom and Gomorrah is not just historical, it is also prophetical, which is why Jesus used it to describe the end times.  Your side will get their way, but only for a season, until Christ returns.  As for me, I will choose to hold to God's word.  I will not join with those who believe the lie and are condemned.  So, let the chips fall where they may.

[Franzl]

And I'm not gonna lie, I read Franzl's post, and saw the avatar, and thought it was our other favourite D-IL poster.

Understandable... I get upset with that kind of garbage though.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

And I'm not gonna lie, I read Franzl's post, and saw the avatar, and thought it was our other favourite D-IL poster.

Understandable... I get upset with that kind of garbage though.

What part of Bushie's post was "ignorant"?   I don't agree with him particularly but I'm confused what you what was ignorant in his posting.

[Reaganfan]

The problem with you liberals is I hear someone say: I am for same sex marriage.

My response is: Okay, I'm not.

I say: I am against same sex marriage.

Your response is: OMG BIGOT OMG CAVEMAN HOW DARE YOU SO HEARTLESS BOO FRICKIN HOO@@@!

[Dan the Roman]

Everyone talking about the results is missing one thing. This was not a turnout issue. Turnout was substantially greater than in the 2006 general election and was well over 60% of registered voters, and  I doubt Young voters or Democrats stayed home much at all. There are no similarities between Maine and what happened in New Jersey and Virginia.

 In fact, I would argue that had you told the NO campaign two days ago they would get 270,000+ votes they would have been overjoyed and expected a ten to twelve point win.  The real problem here had nothing to do with enthuisasm or base turnout. It had to do with the utter failure of the NO campaign to make headway in the traditionally Democratic but socially conservative places like Lewiston. A democrat can not lose Lewiston by 20 points and win an election in Maine. They ran a campaign focused on running up the margin in Cumberland county and hoped for regular off-year turnout everywhere else. They succeeded in the first and failed in the latter.

This realy does reinforce however how different Cumberland county is from the rest of Maine. Without Cumberland, Maine is the poorest state in the Union, and it has more in common with suburban Massachusetts than with the rest of Maine. Look at the results in Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Brunswick, 71%, 68% and 65% NO. The big divide was not age or partisan politics but class. The elite have a consensus in favor of Gay Marriage, but it was not spead outside that elite, even to Democrats or Young Voters who might otherwise be attracted to it.

[Phony Moderate]

Everyone talking about the results is missing one thing. This was not a turnout issue. Turnout was substantially greater than in the 2006 general election and was well over 60% of registered voters, and  I doubt Young voters or Democrats stayed home much at all. There are no similarities between Maine and what happened in New Jersey and Virginia.

 In fact, I would argue that had you told the NO campaign two days ago they would get 270,000+ votes they would have been overjoyed and expected a ten to twelve point win.  The real problem here had nothing to do with enthuisasm or base turnout. It had to do with the utter failure of the NO campaign to make headway in the traditionally Democratic but socially conservative places like Lewiston. A democrat can not lose Lewiston by 20 points and win an election in Maine. They ran a campaign focused on running up the margin in Cumberland county and hoped for regular off-year turnout everywhere else. They succeeded in the first and failed in the latter.

This realy does reinforce however how different Cumberland county is from the rest of Maine. Without Cumberland, Maine is the poorest state in the Union, and it has more in common with suburban Massachusetts than with the rest of Maine. Look at the results in Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Brunswick, 71%, 68% and 65% NO. The big divide was not age or partisan politics but class. The elite have a consensus in favor of Gay Marriage, but it was not spead outside that elite, even to Democrats or Young Voters who might otherwise be attracted to it.

Old people tend to vote in large numbers for things like this, as they are more religious than any other age group.

[Brittain33]

The problem with you liberals is I hear someone say: I am for same sex marriage.

My response is: Okay, I'm not.

I say: I am against same sex marriage.

Your response is: OMG BIGOT OMG CAVEMAN HOW DARE YOU SO HEARTLESS BOO FRICKIN HOO@@@!

From what I've seen, you aren't getting any responses at all to your opinions. Except when you phrase them in a way a little different from "I am against same sex marriage."

[Dan the Roman]

Everyone talking about the results is missing one thing. This was not a turnout issue. Turnout was substantially greater than in the 2006 general election and was well over 60% of registered voters, and  I doubt Young voters or Democrats stayed home much at all. There are no similarities between Maine and what happened in New Jersey and Virginia.

 In fact, I would argue that had you told the NO campaign two days ago they would get 270,000+ votes they would have been overjoyed and expected a ten to twelve point win.  The real problem here had nothing to do with enthuisasm or base turnout. It had to do with the utter failure of the NO campaign to make headway in the traditionally Democratic but socially conservative places like Lewiston. A democrat can not lose Lewiston by 20 points and win an election in Maine. They ran a campaign focused on running up the margin in Cumberland county and hoped for regular off-year turnout everywhere else. They succeeded in the first and failed in the latter.

This realy does reinforce however how different Cumberland county is from the rest of Maine. Without Cumberland, Maine is the poorest state in the Union, and it has more in common with suburban Massachusetts than with the rest of Maine. Look at the results in Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Brunswick, 71%, 68% and 65% NO. The big divide was not age or partisan politics but class. The elite have a consensus in favor of Gay Marriage, but it was not spead outside that elite, even to Democrats or Young Voters who might otherwise be attracted to it.

Old people tend to vote in large numbers for things like this, as they are more religious than any other age group.

True and they probably were overpresented versus 2008. But this was a higher turnout than 2006 or 2002 and is approaching the 2000 Presidential eleection. The problem was that this was an off-year. The problem was deeper. Young voters did turnout. NO got the votes they thought they needed. The Yes people just got more.

[Franzl]

Your response is: OMG BIGOT OMG CAVEMAN HOW DARE YOU SO HEARTLESS BOO FRICKIN HOO@@@!

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to tell you how illogical and freedom hating it is.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, the class angle seems to have been an important one. More so than in most other votes on this issue - I suppose that cultural differences between the Portland area and the rest of the state account for that.

[Franzl]

And I'm not gonna lie, I read Franzl's post, and saw the avatar, and thought it was our other favourite D-IL poster.

Understandable... I get upset with that kind of garbage though.

What part of Bushie's post was "ignorant"?   I don't agree with him particularly but I'm confused what you what was ignorant in his posting.

I find it ignorant that he doesn't believe in the seperation of church and state. Go ahead and oppose gay marriage, but it's a disgrace to oppose it because of the "bibical" definition of marriage. (Although I admit, there is no reasonable secular argument against it) I consider it ignorant to believe that the bible should have any relevance in public debate about any issue, let alone one that denies people rights.

[ChrisJG777]

This is almost as good as last year's California: "Keep it straight...YES on 8!"

so, 47% of Maine is morally retrobate...sad news

Need I say that the pair of you are utter disgraces, a fact that cannot be overemphasised.

Rom 1:21-32
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Psa 1:1-3
 1 Blessed is the man
       who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
       or stand in the way of sinners
       or sit in the seat of mockers.

 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
       and on his law he meditates day and night.

 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
       which yields its fruit in season
       and whose leaf does not wither.
       Whatever he does prospers.

And your point being?  None whatsoever.  You know I won't fall for any of that rubbish so I don't know why you even try.  The more I see people pulling that idiotic stunt you're performing the more turned off I am by organised religion.

1 No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief.

Indeed.