Bush's 2004 ads

[angus]

Tired of those commercials?

Tired of the Martha Stewart Trial?

Take a look at Telemundo.  That chick in the leopard-skin coat is hot!  I mean smokin' man.  (Rosario ain't bad either, if the homos are looking for something interesting).

Actually, all Bush needs to do is come out and be George Bush.  By the way, all of you realize that endorsements mean more to the endorser than to the endorsed, right?

[Beet]

RE: Economic Data
You all can argue until you are blue in the face, but history has shown that regardless of the laws of macroeconomics, the incumbant tends to be rewarded for a good economy (even if he doesnt deserve the credit), and punished for a bad one.

I agree, but I take issue with someone pulling out a 2 1/2 year old chart and trying to make a political point about it.  It's dishonest.  

Also, that old of a chart isn't exactly easy to find.  It took some digging by someone trying to distort the facts.

I also take issue with the obvious presumption that members on this forum are too dumb to notice the age of the chart.

jmfcst,

1) Firstly, I wouldn't underestimate your knowledge about economics because I've read your thread on economic indicators and we've discussed this before, so I know you know.

2) Gosh you make a lot of assumptions. Suppose you were looking for quarter economic data from 2001, what would you do? Go to Google and type in "U.S. GDP growth 2001" and click on the 6th link from the top.

3) Look I'm not saying leading economic indicators weren't negative or that it was Bush's fault. All I'm saying is the the economy was not in recession in January 2001 by any of the two traditional measures of a recession. Just because the economy might have been headed towards a recession, it doesn't mean the recession had already begun.

4) Now in case you think all this is too bitchy, here is my point: In 2000, the media repeatedly misquoted Gore with quotes like "I invented the Internet" saying that he stretched the truth. Now it is eight months before the election and in his very first ads Bush is already stretching the truth. If the media were really so "liberal" they would point this out.

[angus]

Oh, my god!  She just kicked Rosario in the nuts.  That's gotta hurt.  ¡Orale buey!  ¿Qué pasó?

Lighten up, Beet, Bush inhereted that from Clinton.  You
think the stocks tanked just because he got elected?  

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

jmfcst,

1) Firstly, I wouldn't underestimate your knowledge about economics because I've read your thread on economic indicators and we've discussed this before, so I know you know.

2) Gosh you make a lot of assumptions. Suppose you were looking for quarter economic data from 2001, what would you do? Go to Google and type in "U.S. GDP growth 2001" and click on the 6th link from the top.

First, if you read my economic thread then you should know that I've had a chart of GDP performance in one form or the other on the first post of the thread for many many months now.  So there shouldn't had been any need for you to google it.  But that's a minor point.

Second, and more importantly, if you follow economic news at all, you'd know the numbers represented on your graph were revised two whole years ago.

So the only conclusion I can make is that you were either acting in ignorance (not to be confused with stupidity) or with the intent to deceive.  But, you have, as you should, the benefit of the doubt.

[emergingDmajority1]

9/11 was Bush's strength? really? Falling asleep at the wheel is a good thing?

[angus]

wildcard who did you put for gov?  I did Qudisay.  Jones won.

[12th Doctor]

9/11 was Bush's strength? really? Falling asleep at the wheel is a good thing?

I didn't know that you could be so critical of Clinton.  I agree, Clinton did let our country down by ripping the CIA to pieces and not going after terrorists when he had a chance.

[12th Doctor]

The General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO (IAFF), Harold Schaitberger, issued the following statement today after President Bush unveiled new political ads that use images of fire fighters in September 11, 2001 attacks for political gain.

“I’m disappointed but not surprised that the President would try to trade on the heroism of those fire fighters in the September 11 attacks. The use of 9/11 images are hypocrisy at its worst. Here’s a President that initially opposed the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and now uses its first anniversary as cause to promote his re-election. Here is a President that proposed two budgets with no funding for FIRE Act grants and still plays on the image of America’s bravest. His advertisements are disgraceful.

“Bush is calling on the biggest disaster in our country’s history, and indeed in the history of the fire service, to win sympathy for his campaign. Since the attacks, Bush has been using images of himself putting his arm around a retired FDNY fire fighter on the pile of rubble at ground zero. But for two and a half years he has basically shortchanged fire fighters and the safety of our homeland by not providing fire fighters the resources needed to do the job that America deserves.

“The fact is Bush’s actions have resulted in fire stations closing in communities around the country. Two-thirds of America’s fire departments remain under-staffed because Bush is failing to enforce a new law that was passed with bipartisan support in Congress that would put more fire fighters in our communities. President Bush’s budget proposes to cut Homeland Security Department funding for first responders by $700 million for next year and cuts funding for the FIRE Act, a grant program that helps fire departments fund equipment needs, 33% by $250 million. In addition, state and local programs for homeland security purposes were reduced $200 million.

“We’re going to be aggressive and vocal in our efforts to ensure that the citizens of this country know about Bush’s poor record on protecting their safety and providing for the needs of the people who are supposed to respond in an emergency.”

Please excuse me while I laugh.  The Firefighters Union, like all unions, is slavishly Democratic.  I wouldn't put much stock in what they say, especially since there are many firefighters after 9/11 who don't support thier policies.

[Wakie]

9/11 was Bush's strength? really? Falling asleep at the wheel is a good thing?

I didn't know that you could be so critical of Clinton.  I agree, Clinton did let our country down by ripping the CIA to pieces and not going after terrorists when he had a chance.

Can you please cite examples of how Clinton ripped the CIA to pieces?

[12th Doctor]

9/11 was Bush's strength? really? Falling asleep at the wheel is a good thing?

I didn't know that you could be so critical of Clinton.  I agree, Clinton did let our country down by ripping the CIA to pieces and not going after terrorists when he had a chance.

Can you please cite examples of how Clinton ripped the CIA to pieces?

Well, there was the executive order that disallowed the CIA from dealing with 'unscrupulus' individuals.  The fact that he cut the intellegence budget especially to the training programs.  He failed to do ANYTHING to modernize intellegence after the end of the Cold War.  He basically allowed our intellegence services to stagnate if not wither.  George Talent said as much.  Most intellegence officials on TV also say the same thing, as have most of those in the intellegence services that have writen books on the subject.  I took a Homeland Security class and speaker after speaker talked about how our intellegence agencies struggled throughout the 90's.

Clinton destroyed our intellegence service and if you weren't so partisan then you could probably see that.  But like many Democrats, you see that Bush was in office for 8 months and so 9/11 was his fault.  You see that Bush was in office for negative 20 days when the economy started into recession and so that must be his fault.  No matter that the economic slow down started in 1999- it is still Bush's fault.  The American people new that Bush would become president, so the economy slowed down!!!!  No it's true!!!  Really, it's true, it's true!!!!  Why won't people believe us?

I'm sorry, I try not to be insulting, but please.

[angus]

Please excuse me while I laugh.  The Firefighters Union, like all unions, is slavishly Democratic.  I wouldn't put much stock in what they say, especially since there are many firefighters after 9/11 who don't support thier policies.

I've been wondering about that.  I don't know any firefighters or their families, but on TV it's always the firemen unions like Kerry.  What's the buzz back east?  Firemen like Kerry all of the sudden?

[Beet]

jmfcst,

1) Firstly, I wouldn't underestimate your knowledge about economics because I've read your thread on economic indicators and we've discussed this before, so I know you know.

2) Gosh you make a lot of assumptions. Suppose you were looking for quarter economic data from 2001, what would you do? Go to Google and type in "U.S. GDP growth 2001" and click on the 6th link from the top.

First, if you read my economic thread then you should know that I've had a chart of GDP performance in one form or the other on the first post of the thread for many many months now.  So there shouldn't had been any need for you to google it.  But that's a minor point.

Second, and more importantly, if you follow economic news at all, you'd know the numbers represented on your graph were revised two whole years ago.

So the only conclusion I can make is that you were either acting in ignorance (not to be confused with stupidity) or with the intent to deceive.  But, you have, as you should, the benefit of the doubt.

Well, this distracts from the point of the campaign ad, which was meant to decieve.

[StevenNick]

Well, this distracts from the point of the campaign ad, which was meant to decieve.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh stuff it.

[agcatter]

Meant to deceive?

Pardon me while I LMAO.

[California Dreamer]

The goal of these ads was to come out with a nonconfrontational positive image to kick off the campaign.

It seems to me that like the State of the Union and the Meet the Press appearance it is another misstep on their part. I bet you wont be seeing any 9-11 imagery in future ads from the Bush admin, especially nothing with firefighters in it. It just doesnt look good to have 9-11 firefighters on the nightly news slamming you.

[Wakie]

Well, there was the executive order that disallowed the CIA from dealing with 'unscrupulus' individuals.

I'm sorry, which executive order would this be?  I'm looking and looking for it, but can't find it.  Do you have the # of it or a link that will explain it?

The fact that he cut the intellegence budget especially to the training programs.  He failed to do ANYTHING to modernize intellegence after the end of the Cold War.  He basically allowed our intellegence services to stagnate if not wither.

Ok, you are absolutely showing partisanship here.  In the early 1990s, President George HW Bush had conducted an examination of the intelligence community and instigated a steady series of budgetary cuts from its historic high of $30 billion per annum in 1991, to $28 billion by 1993.  It was HW Bush, not Clinton, who initiated the CIA budget cuts.

I took a Homeland Security class and speaker after speaker talked about how our intellegence agencies struggled throughout the 90's.

I'm sorry but who teaches a "Homeland Security" class?  It sounds to me to be a very partisan class.  Did your speakers mention that grand-scale terrorism remained a hypothetical danger prior to 9/11?  And that despite this, Clinton doubled counter-terrorist spending across 40 departments and agencies and devoted some of his highest-profile foreign policy speeches on the subject, including an addresses to mark the United Nations' 50th anniversary, when he spoke of the terrorists who had "plotted to destroy the very hall we gather in today."  But he faced significant resistance from the GOP in Congress who were more interested in the Lewinsky scandal and a missile shield (notice how that went off Bush's radar after 9/11).

Heck, when Clinton approved the use of Tomahawk missiles to take out some Bin Laden training camps the GOP cried he was "wagging the dog".  His response was the equivalent to Reagan's bombing of Tripoli ... but the GOP claimed it was political and, at the time, too much.  Now they claim it wasn't enough.

Clinton destroyed our intellegence service and if you weren't so partisan then you could probably see that.  But like many Democrats, you see that Bush was in office for 8 months and so 9/11 was his fault.

I disagree.  I believe it is you who are being partisan.  To me, 9/11 was a horrible tragedy.  I don't blame it on Democrats or Republicans.  I think it is in poor taste for Bush to point at 9/11 and essentially say "vote for me or else this will happen again" at the same time he cuts funding to the very rescue workers who were heroes that day.

You see that Bush was in office for negative 20 days when the economy started into recession and so that must be his fault.

While I think the year Bush spent campaigning declaring that the economy would be horrible certainly shook consumer confidence, I don't blame him for the recession.  I do blame him for his poor management of the economy in the years since he took office though.

Realistically though, we can sit around and argue whose fault what is.  What we really need is an open discussion not about what has happened and whose fault it is .... but what our leadership should and will be doing going forward.

[Wakie]

Please excuse me while I laugh.  The Firefighters Union, like all unions, is slavishly Democratic.  I wouldn't put much stock in what they say, especially since there are many firefighters after 9/11 who don't support thier policies.

I've been wondering about that.  I don't know any firefighters or their families, but on TV it's always the firemen unions like Kerry.  What's the buzz back east?  Firemen like Kerry all of the sudden?

I'm a volunteer firefighter.  I run a side business which works with VFD's.  Firefighters, like any group, are individuals.  Some like Kerry, some like Bush.  The general feeling though is that Kerry is better for funding of fire departments.

[Mort from NewYawk]

9/11 was Bush's strength? really? Falling asleep at the wheel is a good thing?

The implication that blame for 9/11 can be placed with any President or anyone in this country is fatuous and will go nowhere politically.

We were all "asleep at the wheel" -

During the boom of the early 80's and again in the 90's, Americans were lapping up luxury cars, luxury vacations, gourmet food and big computers, and no one gave a good goddamn about an Arab world seething in hate for our system and blowing up our embassies and ships. Granted, perhaps we couldn't fathom that people would fly commercial planes into skyscrapers, but why couldn't we fathom that?

What's done is done - they finally got our attention.

George Bush got the wakeup call in a big way, and immediately set out the terms of war - terrorists and the countries that harbor them are our enemy, and this struggle will not be over quickly or be without great cost.

Much of the country, even conservatives, responded to that with doubt and concern, but it should be clear by now that this administration is committed to a plan to begin to change the political and economic structure of the Middle East, the only real solution to preventing Islamist terrorists from creating other 9/11s.

No American created that tragedy, but Bush took the wheel and steered it with determination in the aftermath. He's allowed to remind the American people of that, but it would be money better spent if he could return to educating them regarding the real reasons we are waging this war.

[opebo]

Please excuse me while I laugh.  The Firefighters Union, like all unions, is slavishly Democratic.  I wouldn't put much stock in what they say, especially since there are many firefighters after 9/11 who don't support thier policies.

I've been wondering about that.  I don't know any firefighters or their families, but on TV it's always the firemen unions like Kerry.  What's the buzz back east?  Firemen like Kerry all of the sudden?

Unions like Democrats, its that simple.