Swift Vets begin to fall apart

[JNB]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040821kerr...

Published August 21, 2004

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in Sunday's Tribune.

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.

Rood's previously untold story and the documents shed new light on a key historical event that has taken center stage in an extraordinary political and media firestorm generated by a group calling itself the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

[© tweed]

When all is said and done, this could add up to a small boost for Kerry.  Hey, I'll take it.

[JNB]

   As I said, if the Swift Cowards play with fire, expect them to get burnt quite badly. Real men would take issue with the policies that Kerry supported and his views, while nancyboys lie.

[Jake]

That's over the line. You can't insult combat veterans by calling them cowards.

[JNB]

  Its over the line to accuse a Vet who did save a life and who did get medals(you know others have to witness and it has to be signed off by an superior officer to get a medal) to be accused of lieing. I am sorry, but the Swift Vets stepped way over the line at this one. Again, it is understandable why they are angry at Kerry for his post Vietnam actions, but by doing wht they are doing, they have stepped well over the line, and they are a disgrace to the Vietnam Vets. If they have a score to settle, do it like hororable men, not like cowards.

   Agree or disagree with Kerry, he was over there, he was in life threatening situations, he put his life on the line, far far far more than any of us have done, and what he did do has to be respected.

[Jake]

John Kerry is a hero, he may have lied but he is a hero.

It is out of line, no matter what, to call a group of veterans cowards. By doing that you show your true @sshole colors.

[The Duke]

JNB,

Its not out of line to call Kerry a liar.  He has already been proven as such and has admitted that he has told at least one lie about his war experience: He said he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 at the same time that President Nixon was telling America that there were no Americans in Cambodia.

Kerry was never in Cambodia, and Nixon wasn't President in 1968.

The Kerry campaign has been forced to admit this.

[PrisonerOfHope]

His crew members have confirmed they were operating in a section of the river where one bank was Cambodia, the other Vietnam.  That's how S. Vietnamese forces could be taking pot shots at them.   Kerry's recollection might be off a little about events but that is scant evidence to brand someone a liar.

Compare the charge to the Slimies slander that has government documents that cleary contradict their claims.  

(See JF, documents are evidence not conjecture.)

[The Duke]

His crew members have confirmed they were operating in a section of the river where one bank was Cambodia, the other Vietnam.  That's how S. Vietnamese forces could be taking pot shots at them.   Kerry's recollection might be off a little about events but that is scant evidence to brand someone a liar.

Compare the charge to the Slimies slander that has government documents that cleary contradict their claims.  

(See JF, documents are evidence not conjecture.)

His sector was 55 miles from Cambodia.  He wasn't operating anywhere near Cambodia.

[PrisonerOfHope]

Here's one link about Kerry's operration in Cambodia in Jan/Feb 1969.    I will try to get the crew mate's quote, I believe it was in NY Times Friday.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_08/004505.php

So the upshot of all this is that Kerry may have confused one bleak day on the river with another.  

Yeah, lets hang that 5-time decorated bastard.

[The Duke]

"Seared in my memory" was his Christmas in Cambodia.

Now the story is, "Well, maybe I'm completely and totally full of crap, but forgive me because I did go to Cambodia one other time."

This is not some new revelation, either.  Check the original story, which was broken by the Drudge Report.  We knew all along that he was in Cambodia in January.  Unfortunately, that's not what Kerry had said.

[CARLHAYDEN]

JNB,

Its not out of line to call Kerry a liar.  He has already been proven as such and has admitted that he has told at least one lie about his war experience: He said he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 at the same time that President Nixon was telling America that there were no Americans in Cambodia.

Kerry was never in Cambodia, and Nixon wasn't President in 1968.

The Kerry campaign has been forced to admit this.

John,

As you should know, I have posted several specifics where Kerry made statements about his Viet Nam experiences which have subsequently been proven to be false.

However, this does not automatically make him a liar.

I am coming increasingly to believe that Kerry is simply delusional about his Viet Nam experiences, and remembering things that either did not happen, or did not happen the way he described them.

I really wonder if his Christmas in Cambodia story is not derived from watching a rather well known movie.

I wonder if in the throwing of whatever over the White House fence, he was previously at a meeting (possibly a little tight), and when the group was ready to go throw whatever over the White House fence he said something to the effect, 'I didn't bring my medals,' and someone else in the group said something to the effect, 'here are a couple, nobody will know the difference.'

I suspect that his testimony about attrocities before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was simply his believing the tall tales he had heard earlier from some of his associates in the so-called anti-war movement.

I could go on to give other examples.

The bottom line is that we don't have to label Kerry a liar to find his Viet Nam stories non-credible.

[The Duke]

Carl,

I think you may be right.  His obsession with Vietnam does imply some kind of psychological problem.

[Lunar]

Carl,

I think you may be right.  His obsession with Vietnam does imply some kind of psychological problem.

The campaign stuff is almost certainly done because that is what he feels wins votes.  He wasn't the Vietnam candidate until he fired his campaign manager and got a new one, who then put it at the forefront of the Kerry campaign.

Carl's analysis of the actual testimony has a good chance of being correct though.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Interesting add on.

The Washington Post had an article about one of the contested incidents.

The Post sought enough information to try to establish the facts through a FOA.

The navy only produced a small amount of the material.

When the Post asked Kerry to authorize full disclosure (necessary to get all of the information from the Navy), he refused.

When the Post sought access to Kerry's 'wartime' diary, he refused.

Apparently Kerry also wrote a draft for a book in 1971 which Brinkley used as a resource for his book.  When the Post asked for disclosure of that resource, Kerry again refused.

Very interesting!

[raggage]

Carl,

I think you may be right.  His obsession with Vietnam does imply some kind of psychological problem.

And Bush's obsession with Iraq does not?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Trying to change the subject again.

[freedomburns]

The subject is that the Bush administration is cheating against the proper use of these new 527 groups by having one of their staff working while appearing in an ad that unfairly mischaracterizes Kerry's record by lying (as per the usual) about his service record in blatant contradiction to their own sworn signed affadavits.  

These guys have been just caught lying, cheating and stealing money from a non-profit organization by coordinating its efforts with their campaign.

That is the subject, please continue...