Allowing non-citizens to vote

[zorkpolitics]

CA considers allowing non-citizens (legal or not?) to vote.  MD already does!
This seems a bit nuts to me.   If a person cares enough to want to vote, then they should care enough to follow procedures to become a US citizen.  If they don't want to give up their previous nationality, it seems reasonable they shoudl not be bale to vote.  Do we realy want non-citizens deciding close elections?

see:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_vote12.a1179.html

(Requires free registration)

[migrendel]

The animus you harbor is what is despicable, Mr. Fresh. California is trying to be an equal administrator, and trying to be a kind state that includes of all of her residents, even if they come from abject poverty and across storm tossed seas. If they give immigrants healthcare, what is the shame? What is the shame in not wanting to see people die from illness or starvation? It has no logical justification, just the seething distrust of immigrants.

[DarthKosh]

The animus you harbor is what is despicable, Mr. Fresh. California is trying to be an equal administrator, and trying to be a kind state that includes of all of her residents, even if they come from abject poverty and across storm tossed seas. If they give immigrants healthcare, what is the shame? What is the shame in not wanting to see people die from illness or starvation? It has no logical justification, just the seething distrust of immigrants.

If you are here illegaly you should be arrest and deported.  I don't care if you are sick you are break the law and should be deported.

[CHRISTOPHER MICHAE]

The animus you harbor is what is despicable, Mr. Fresh. California is trying to be an equal administrator, and trying to be a kind state that includes of all of her residents, even if they come from abject poverty and across storm tossed seas. If they give immigrants healthcare, what is the shame? What is the shame in not wanting to see people die from illness or starvation? It has no logical justification, just the seething distrust of immigrants.

Not seething distrust of immigrants, but iillegal immigrants. With Governor Terminator taking away the right of aliens to get driver's licenses, I don't see how California ia trying to be equal in any respect.

[migrendel]

Perhaps we should go to the root of the problem, and wonder why any supposedly just law would make a criminal out of someone who wants to come to this country and takes no consideration of the health and welfare interests of the new residents.

[CHRISTOPHER MICHAE]

Perhaps we should go to the root of the problem, and wonder why any supposedly just law would make a criminal out of someone who wants to come to this country and takes no consideration of the health and welfare interests of the new residents.

The "Health and Welfare interests of the new residents" is what we are worried about. If they are carrying any contagious diseases, they shouldn't be allowed here. As far as their welfare, we know they'd get little support, so they are better off going through the process of becoming legal citizens. The stern policies we have in place are in place out of concern for both them and our citizenry.

[DarthKosh]

Perhaps we should go to the root of the problem, and wonder why any supposedly just law would make a criminal out of someone who wants to come to this country and takes no consideration of the health and welfare interests of the new residents.

If they want to come here let them become legal citizens.  Not border runners in the middle of the night just to live on our handouts.

[CHRISTOPHER MICHAE]

Perhaps we should go to the root of the problem, and wonder why any supposedly just law would make a criminal out of someone who wants to come to this country and takes no consideration of the health and welfare interests of the new residents.

Well said. And in such few words. That's what I was trying to say. Thanks.

If they want to come here let them become legal citizens.  Not border runners in the middle of the night just to live on our handouts.

[migrendel]

Since you said illegal immigrants, the fact that I was refering to illegal immigrants in my post was implied.

[DarthKosh]

Since you said illegal immigrants, the fact that I was refering to illegal immigrants in my post was implied.

If you come and become a legal citizen then you can vote.  If you are an illegal you should be kicked out as soon as possible.

[CHRISTOPHER MICHAE]

Since you said illegal immigrants, the fact that I was refering to illegal immigrants in my post was implied.

If you come and become a legal citizen then you can vote.  If you are an illegal you should be kicked out as soon as possible.

What? The only illegals I can think of that wouldn't jump at the chance to become legal would be would be Terrorists. So your point is moot. There would be no illegal other than mentioned that would have to be booted out for refusing to accept citizenship.

[DarthKosh]

Since you said illegal immigrants, the fact that I was refering to illegal immigrants in my post was implied.

If you come and become a legal citizen then you can vote.  If you are an illegal you should be kicked out as soon as possible.

What? The only illegals I can think of that wouldn't jump at the chance to become legal would be would be Terrorists. So your point is moot. There would be no illegal other than mentioned that would have to be booted out for refusing to accept citizenship.

Most illegals do not want to give up their mexican citizenship.

[migrendel]

I suppose you've conducted sociological research to support your thesis, DarthKosh, about the "illegals"? If you have, as I have, your facts don't seem to be quite concurrent with mine.

[DarthKosh]

I suppose you've conducted sociological research to support your thesis, DarthKosh, about the "illegals"? If you have, as I have, your facts don't seem to be quite concurrent with mine.

Then if the illegals really want to become citizens.  Then they shouldn't be crossing river and deserts in the middle of the night.

[migrendel]

Did you ever stop and wonder why? Why would they take that risk with a naturalization procedure? I shall tell you why. The naturalization process is complicated. It is contigent upon a test administered in English, a language few from Mexico speak, and that's assuming they can read and write. You may rebut with a statement that they should just learn English. As someone who has taught themself two languages, I can tell you it isn't easy for the most able. If you're not the most gifted person, it's even more arduous. If you will reasonably simlplify the process, you will acquire some validity. If not, one can point to the many walls that prevent those who wish to be citizens.

[English]

This sounds like a silly idea to me. Why should non-citizens be able to vote? I know I wouldn't be happy if the French or Germans could vote in UK elections. It's a ludicrous idea.

[jravnsbo]

Could we as Americans go to other countries and vote even if not citizens?  I don't think so.  So why is it even an issue here.

You should be a citizen to vote.

[Gustaf]

Did you ever stop and wonder why? Why would they take that risk with a naturalization procedure? I shall tell you why. The naturalization process is complicated. It is contigent upon a test administered in English, a language few from Mexico speak, and that's assuming they can read and write. You may rebut with a statement that they should just learn English. As someone who has taught themself two languages, I can tell you it isn't easy for the most able. If you're not the most gifted person, it's even more arduous. If you will reasonably simlplify the process, you will acquire some validity. If not, one can point to the many walls that prevent those who wish to be citizens.

I don't know what ancestry you are from migrendel, but mine came here and they didn't speak a lick of English.  They took the test, they went in legally.  I'm sorry, but that's simply the way it is, you want to be a citizen, you have to follow the rules.  SIMPLE.

This sounds like a silly idea to me. Why should non-citizens be able to vote? I know I wouldn't be happy if the French or Germans could vote in UK elections. It's a ludicrous idea.

Thank you.  

In Sweden there is more slack in local elections than in national ones. Does any of your countries have differences between different elections in this matter? Also, in our recent referendum, foreign citizens were allowed to vote because the politicians judged they were more likely to vote for the *right* option, thus improving the chances of a correct outcome. Isn't that often a reason for different opinions in these matters?

[English]

Could we as Americans go to other countries and vote even if not citizens?  I don't think so.  So why is it even an issue here.

You should be a citizen to vote.

No, it's not an issue. I completely agree, non-citizens should not be able to vote. It's a ridiculous suggestion.

[CHRISTOPHER MICHAE]

Could we as Americans go to other countries and vote even if not citizens?  I don't think so.  So why is it even an issue here.

You should be a citizen to vote.

And I will agree with you there. Also, I think we should not allow non-natural-born  citizens to hold the Highest Office in the Land.

[jravnsbo]

what do you mean by non natural citizens.

You have to be an american born citizen to be President.

For example Gov Granholm (d-MI) and ARNOLD (R-CA) are not eligible because they were born in Canada and Austria respectively.

[© tweed]

The animus you harbor is what is despicable, Mr. Fresh. California is trying to be an equal administrator, and trying to be a kind state that includes of all of her residents, even if they come from abject poverty and across storm tossed seas. If they give immigrants healthcare, what is the shame? What is the shame in not wanting to see people die from illness or starvation? It has no logical justification, just the seething distrust of immigrants.

If you are here illegaly you should be arrest and deported.  I don't care if you are sick you are break the law and should be deported.

Are you saying illegal immigrants should not be given healthcare if their lives are in danger?

[jravnsbo]

every where anyone can get emergency help, if it illegal.

But that is a generalization.  They shouldn't get elective procedures, but life threatening procedures are justified.  

[© tweed]

every where anyone can get emergency help, if it illegal.

But that is a generalization.  They shouldn't get elective procedures, but life threatening procedures are justified.  

Agreed.

[minionofmidas]

As far as I know the UK is actually the world's only county to let non-citizens vote in national elections, though only those from Ireland and the Commonwealth. Extending that to EU citizens was actually considered around 1997/8, if I remember right. Most EU countries let their fellow EU people vote in local elections by now.

Migrendel, I totally agree personally that to live wherever you want and enjoy full equality there is actually a human right and that anyone who finds a way around immigration laws -they are worse in Europe than in America, btw- should be encouraged. But that's a losing battle in discussions among European leftwingers for Christ's Sake, so maybe we should just let the subject drop...