No Bob Dole
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Author Topic: No Bob Dole  (Read 2478 times)
qwerty
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« on: May 11, 2004, 09:47:32 PM »

In WWII, Bob Dole is hit just a little worse, and dosen't make it.

How does it effect 1976, 1980, 1988, and 1996?
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 09:46:00 AM »

Here it is:
1976: Ford/Rockefeller runs for election and wins by a hair. Carter loses NY
giving him only 256 votes. Rockefeller strong support in NY state causes that
state to go Republican. Ford/Rockefeller beats Carter/Mondale.

Ford/Rockefeller: 281*
Carter/Mondale: 256

1980: After the death of Vice President Rockefeller, President Ford chooses
Fomer Texas Governor John Connally as his new Vice President. Ford/Connally
declines a second term, so Connally runs. Other contenders for the nomination
include CIA Directer George Bush, and California Governor Ronald Reagan.
Connally goes not get the nomination but goes down in history for doning a
great job taking over for 2 years the second highest seat in the land. So Reagan
gets the nomination. He chooses George Bush as his running mate. His opposition
are Democratic Senator Max Baucus and his running mate Senator Carl Levin.
Reagan/Bush beats Baucus/Levin by an upset victory.

Reagan/Bush: 503*
Baucus/Levin: 35

1984: Reagan is a popular incumbant president. Bush is an active and popular Vice President.
Frank Lautenberg decides to run to keep an older man to go against an older president.
Lautenberg chooses former Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California as his running mate.
Reagan runs a tough race against Lautenberg. On election night, all states go to the GOP.
Frank Lautenberg loses in an embarrasing landslide.

Reagan/Bush: 538*
Lautenberg/Brown: 0

1988: Vice President George Bush runs for the nomination and easily gets it against main
contender Pat Robertson. Bush chooses Indiania Senator Dan Quayle as his running mate.
His main opposition is Senator Lloyd Bentsen of Texas. It is a Texas-Texas race. Bentsen
chooses Governor Robert Kerrey of Nebraska as his running mate. Bush sweeps the nation
on election night.

Bush/Quayle: 357*
Bentsen/Kerrey: 181

1992: President Bush has great popularity. Dan Quayle is no longer looked at as stupid. They both
run for re-election against Governor Bill Clinton and his running mate Senator Al Gore. They run a
hard fought campaign. Independent Ross Perot declines a run, making a Bush victory a better possiblility.
On election night 1992, polls have Clinton and Bush tied. Final tally goives a somewhat surprising result.

Bush/Quayle: 270*
Clinton/Gore: 268

1996: As President Bush leaves office, Vice President Dan Quayle decides to run. Now extremely
popular, he gets the nomiantion hands down. He chooses Defense Secretary Dick Cheney to be his
running mate. Former VP candidate Al Gore runs and chooses Governor Evan Bayh of Indiana as
his running mate. Election night is close, as are the final results.

Gore/Bayh: 273*
Quayle/Cheney: 265

2000: President Gore is not a good campaigner. He barely beat Vice President Quayle. He keeps
Vice Presdent Bayh on the ticket and barely gets the nomination over Senator Bill Bradley. His
main opposition is Governor of Texas George W. Bush. Bush gets the nomination and chooses
Senator of Arizona John McCain as his running mate. The election is any thing but close.

Bush/McCain: 403*
Gore/Bayh: 135

Well. if Dole had not ran, I would have expected a lot more GOP presidents.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2004, 12:06:22 PM »

Here it is:
1976: Ford/Rockefeller runs for election and wins by a hair. Carter loses NY
giving him only 256 votes. Rockefeller strong support in NY state causes that
state to go Republican. Ford/Rockefeller beats Carter/Mondale.

Ford/Rockefeller: 281*
Carter/Mondale: 256

1980: After the death of Vice President Rockefeller, President Ford chooses
Fomer Texas Governor John Connally as his new Vice President. Ford/Connally
declines a second term, so Connally runs. Other contenders for the nomination
include CIA Directer George Bush, and California Governor Ronald Reagan.
Connally goes not get the nomination but goes down in history for doning a
great job taking over for 2 years the second highest seat in the land. So Reagan
gets the nomination. He chooses George Bush as his running mate. His opposition
are Democratic Senator Max Baucus and his running mate Senator Carl Levin.
Reagan/Bush beats Baucus/Levin by an upset victory.

Reagan/Bush: 503*
Baucus/Levin: 35

1984: Reagan is a popular incumbant president. Bush is an active and popular Vice President.
Frank Lautenberg decides to run to keep an older man to go against an older president.
Lautenberg chooses former Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California as his running mate.
Reagan runs a tough race against Lautenberg. On election night, all states go to the GOP.
Frank Lautenberg loses in an embarrasing landslide.

Reagan/Bush: 538*
Lautenberg/Brown: 0

1988: Vice President George Bush runs for the nomination and easily gets it against main
contender Pat Robertson. Bush chooses Indiania Senator Dan Quayle as his running mate.
His main opposition is Senator Lloyd Bentsen of Texas. It is a Texas-Texas race. Bentsen
chooses Governor Robert Kerrey of Nebraska as his running mate. Bush sweeps the nation
on election night.

Bush/Quayle: 357*
Bentsen/Kerrey: 181

1992: President Bush has great popularity. Dan Quayle is no longer looked at as stupid. They both
run for re-election against Governor Bill Clinton and his running mate Senator Al Gore. They run a
hard fought campaign. Independent Ross Perot declines a run, making a Bush victory a better possiblility.
On election night 1992, polls have Clinton and Bush tied. Final tally goives a somewhat surprising result.

Bush/Quayle: 270*
Clinton/Gore: 268

1996: As President Bush leaves office, Vice President Dan Quayle decides to run. Now extremely
popular, he gets the nomiantion hands down. He chooses Defense Secretary Dick Cheney to be his
running mate. Former VP candidate Al Gore runs and chooses Governor Evan Bayh of Indiana as
his running mate. Election night is close, as are the final results.

Gore/Bayh: 273*
Quayle/Cheney: 265

2000: President Gore is not a good campaigner. He barely beat Vice President Quayle. He keeps
Vice Presdent Bayh on the ticket and barely gets the nomination over Senator Bill Bradley. His
main opposition is Governor of Texas George W. Bush. Bush gets the nomination and chooses
Senator of Arizona John McCain as his running mate. The election is any thing but close.

Bush/McCain: 403*
Gore/Bayh: 135

Well. if Dole had not ran, I would have expected a lot more GOP presidents.

Shocked, What is the Senate like? Every single one GOP?

Seriously reaganfan, do you REALLY think that would happen?
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2004, 12:19:41 PM »

Why not. I had Gore win.
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Ben.
Ben
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2004, 12:26:06 PM »

Here it is:
1976: Ford/Rockefeller runs for election and wins by a hair. Carter loses NY
giving him only 256 votes. Rockefeller strong support in NY state causes that
state to go Republican. Ford/Rockefeller beats Carter/Mondale.

Ford/Rockefeller: 281*
Carter/Mondale: 256

1980: After the death of Vice President Rockefeller, President Ford chooses
Fomer Texas Governor John Connally as his new Vice President. Ford/Connally
declines a second term, so Connally runs. Other contenders for the nomination
include CIA Directer George Bush, and California Governor Ronald Reagan.
Connally goes not get the nomination but goes down in history for doning a
great job taking over for 2 years the second highest seat in the land. So Reagan
gets the nomination. He chooses George Bush as his running mate. His opposition
are Democratic Senator Max Baucus and his running mate Senator Carl Levin.
Reagan/Bush beats Baucus/Levin by an upset victory.

Reagan/Bush: 503*
Baucus/Levin: 35

1984: Reagan is a popular incumbant president. Bush is an active and popular Vice President.
Frank Lautenberg decides to run to keep an older man to go against an older president.
Lautenberg chooses former Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California as his running mate.
Reagan runs a tough race against Lautenberg. On election night, all states go to the GOP.
Frank Lautenberg loses in an embarrasing landslide.

Reagan/Bush: 538*
Lautenberg/Brown: 0

1988: Vice President George Bush runs for the nomination and easily gets it against main
contender Pat Robertson. Bush chooses Indiania Senator Dan Quayle as his running mate.
His main opposition is Senator Lloyd Bentsen of Texas. It is a Texas-Texas race. Bentsen
chooses Governor Robert Kerrey of Nebraska as his running mate. Bush sweeps the nation
on election night.

Bush/Quayle: 357*
Bentsen/Kerrey: 181

1992: President Bush has great popularity. Dan Quayle is no longer looked at as stupid. They both
run for re-election against Governor Bill Clinton and his running mate Senator Al Gore. They run a
hard fought campaign. Independent Ross Perot declines a run, making a Bush victory a better possiblility.
On election night 1992, polls have Clinton and Bush tied. Final tally goives a somewhat surprising result.

Bush/Quayle: 270*
Clinton/Gore: 268

1996: As President Bush leaves office, Vice President Dan Quayle decides to run. Now extremely
popular, he gets the nomiantion hands down. He chooses Defense Secretary Dick Cheney to be his
running mate. Former VP candidate Al Gore runs and chooses Governor Evan Bayh of Indiana as
his running mate. Election night is close, as are the final results.

Gore/Bayh: 273*
Quayle/Cheney: 265

2000: President Gore is not a good campaigner. He barely beat Vice President Quayle. He keeps
Vice Presdent Bayh on the ticket and barely gets the nomination over Senator Bill Bradley. His
main opposition is Governor of Texas George W. Bush. Bush gets the nomination and chooses
Senator of Arizona John McCain as his running mate. The election is any thing but close.

Bush/McCain: 403*
Gore/Bayh: 135

Well. if Dole had not ran, I would have expected a lot more GOP presiden

ts.

LOL

Well that was both realistic and unbiased Cheesy

NO president elected in 1976 and running for re-election in 1980 would have had a good chance of being re-elected, factors beyond the control of the federal government where too great and neither the left or right had any solutions that could have brought about a quick and sustained recovery between 76-80 and assured the incumbent president of re-election… and certainly not a Ford/Rockefeller Admin, which would have had a hostile congress and a conservative grassroots annoyed at the retention of Nelson Rockefeller as VP (that is why he was originally dumped by Ford in 76 and replaced by Dole)…

Had Ford won in 1976 he would have been ineligible in 1980 and Dole would have run probably being forced to pick a more conservative vp, probably not Reagan perhaps Governor (was he a senator by this time?) Rhodes of Ohio, or perhaps a southerner. Dole/Rhodes would have been at a big disadvantage; economically things would have been very similar to how it was under Carter and the Legislative grid lock could have only made things worse. Abroad again things would have been similar, the hostage crisis and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan would still have happened and the Administration would still have acted in a similar way to how Carter did…

For the Democrats to lose in 1976, I think the easiest thing to have happen is for Carter not to get the nomination, without Carter the Dems don’t sweep the south and don’t win. So lets say Morris Udall got the nomination in 1976 and lost to Ford…  

Ford/Dole would have failed in a similar way to Carter/Mondale, thanks to similar mistakes and similar circumstances beyond their control…

After the defeat of the liberal Udall, the Democrats nominate a moderate democrat, the young New York Governor Hugh Carey who in turn picks a moderate southerner as his VP, the young Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen… In the ensuing campaign Carey/Bentsen run rings around the hapless Dole/Rhodes ticket and articulate a positive message proposing cuts in spending and tax to help get American out of recession (much as the left did in Australia in the 1980’s). In the end, with the far right disillusioned with the “moderate” Republican ticket and supporting the candidacy of NC Senator Jesse Helms as an Independent Carey cruises to a landslide over the Republican incumbents while Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate remain resolutely solid…

 

Hugh Carey/ Lloyd Bentsen (Democratic) 411 EV
Robert Dole/ James Rhodes (Republican) 114 EV
Jesse Helms/ Philip Crane (Independent-Citizens)13EV


Carey/Bentsen goes in a very similar direction to Reagan/Bush. In 1984 with a full blown economic boom and widespread optimism pervading the country, Carey enjoys a very solid win over former VP nominee Senator James Rhodes (not quite as solid as Reagan however, thanks to their being so very many solidly republican states)…

In 1988 Bentsen/Gore, fights a very competive election against a powerful GOP ticket lead by Senator Pete Wilson (R-CA) with the Indiana Senator Richard Lugar. However in the end Bentsen was able to edge Wilson out in a tough contest.

Bentsen/Gephardt perform well, thing are not too bad, the economy does not “nose dive as it did under Bush (41)” but it does slow down and Bentsen’s approval numbers go down and his health begins to deteriorate. At the same time the outwardly sunny and moderate Pennsylvania Senator John Heinz is beginning to attract a great deal of media interest as a potential GOP nominee to face Bentsen in 1992. In the event he does not face the ailing president who declines to run again and retires to his native Texas and instead Heinz is able to soundly defeat the former Vice President Dick Gephardt.


…Sorry this is a bit rushed and undetailed… but the basic timeline it sets out is pretty plausible imho… and I’ll come back and flesh it out and amend it a little… but I need ta get off to work so bye Wink  
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Gustaf
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 12:30:24 PM »
« Edited: May 12, 2004, 12:34:12 PM by Gustaf »


Um...Rockefeller was H-A-T-E-D by the conservatives and would not have been Ford's RM.

Secondly, the GOP would have received all of the negative atmosphere surrounding Carter by 1980. A landslide then seems very unlikely. And why would Ford not run?

I am more than a little shocked by Reagan winning DC...what was the national count? Since Reagan lost DC in real life 13-85, I'm guessing that the national PV was something like 95% for Reagan, which is pretty impressive.

And how does Bush suddenly get reelected, I don't see how 1992 is changed by all previous events?
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Ben.
Ben
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2004, 12:33:31 PM »


Um...Rockefeller was H-A-T-E-D by the conservatives and would not have been Ford's RM.

Secondly, the GOP would have received all of the negative atmosphere surrounding Carter by 1980. A landslide then seems very unlikely. And why would Ford not run?

I am more than a little shocked by Reagan winning DC...what was the national count? Since Reagan lost DC in real life 13-85, I'm guessing that the national PV was something like 85% for Reagan, which is pretty impressive.

And how does Bush suddenly get reelected, I don't see how 1992 is changed by all previous events?

Its Reaganfan gustaf... god bless him... but he is given to the oc... well regular... "flight of fancy" now and then....

By the way what is your assessment of my TL above?  
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