Opinion of the Ottoman Empire

[Storebought]

The Ottoman "empire" seemed like an anachronism long before its 18th century decline.

[GMantis]

The Ottoman "empire" seemed like an anachronism long before its 18th century decline.

Yet there are still some ignorant fools who think it was preferable to its successor states.

[Mechaman]

To me the Ottoman Empire symbolizes everything I hated about world history from the late 1700's to the mid 1950's: old world imperialism. It's long overdue death was a great achievement for human rights in the Middle East.

[12th Doctor]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

[GMantis]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

Did any of the countries that replaced them kidnap minority children to raise them as fanatical soldiers? Did any of those countries organize mass ethnic cleansing of all non-Christian minorities? Were any of the countries that replaced them massively involved in the slave trade and did they support countries which attacked their neighbours in order to kidnap slaves?

[12th Doctor]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

Did any of the countries that replaced them kidnap minority children to raise them as fanatical soldiers? Did any of those countries organize mass ethnic cleansing of all non-Christian minorities? Were any of the countries that replaced them massively involved in the slave trade and did they support countries which attacked their neighbours in order to kidnap slaves?

Ummm... yeah.  Most of the were involved in at least one thing similar to that.

[GMantis]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

Did any of the countries that replaced them kidnap minority children to raise them as fanatical soldiers? Did any of those countries organize mass ethnic cleansing of all non-Christian minorities? Were any of the countries that replaced them massively involved in the slave trade and did they support countries which attacked their neighbours in order to kidnap slaves?

Ummm... yeah.  Most of the were involved in at least one thing similar to that.

Which and when?

[12th Doctor]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

Did any of the countries that replaced them kidnap minority children to raise them as fanatical soldiers? Did any of those countries organize mass ethnic cleansing of all non-Christian minorities? Were any of the countries that replaced them massively involved in the slave trade and did they support countries which attacked their neighbours in order to kidnap slaves?

Ummm... yeah.  Most of the were involved in at least one thing similar to that.

Which and when?

Iraq and the Kurds.  You may or may not be familiar, but there has been quite a bit of genocidal activity in the Balkans.  Egypt's flirtation with totalitarian government in the 1950's and 60's.  There is this little thing going on in Israel right now.  Syrian oppression of Lebanon.  And pretty much every country in the region is more radically religious (or contains heavy elements of it) than the Ottoman Empire.

[GMantis]

As bad as they were, which wasn't that bad for that era, they were far better than what has replaced them.

Did any of the countries that replaced them kidnap minority children to raise them as fanatical soldiers? Did any of those countries organize mass ethnic cleansing of all non-Christian minorities? Were any of the countries that replaced them massively involved in the slave trade and did they support countries which attacked their neighbours in order to kidnap slaves?

Ummm... yeah.  Most of the were involved in at least one thing similar to that.

Which and when?

Iraq and the Kurds.  You may or may not be familiar, but there has been quite a bit of genocidal activity in the Balkans.  Egypt's flirtation with totalitarian government in the 1950's and 60's.  There is this little thing going on in Israel right now.  Syrian oppression of Lebanon.  And pretty much every country in the region is more radically religious (or contains heavy elements of it) than the Ottoman Empire.

Nothing which can compare with the almost total destruction of its Christian population during the last 10 years of its existence. All Balkan countries under former Ottoman rule still have substantial Muslim minorities, there are no Christians left in Turkey.
The Ottoman empire was actually an extremely religious state. Most Arab countries who inherited it are much more secular. And with a few exceptions they have been much less hostile to progress than the Ottoman empire.
And you haven't provided any examples of the Ottoman Empire's successors practicing the Blood Tax or slavery. Not surprising, because there aren't any.

[12th Doctor]

Nothing which can compare with the almost total destruction of its Christian population during the last 10 years of its existence. All Balkan countries under former Ottoman rule still have substantial Muslim minorities, there are no Christians left in Turkey.

So, because genocides have been slightly less severe in Ottoman successor states, that makes them alot better, in your mind?  See, where I come from, genocide is genocide and we don't really judge it as better or worse based on severity.

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Who, exactly, told you that?  The kind of radical Islam that we now associate with much of the Middle East didn't even develop until the 1950's and 60's.  Either you are vastly underestimating the radical nature of Islam in many places, today, or you have no idea exactly what you are talking about.

And even in the case of Turkey itself,  they practice forced secularization.  I would hardly call that freedom.  So, rather than persecuting small religious minorities, they have persecuted religion itself, to so degree.  Forcing Westernization on your country doesn't make you any more enlightened a ruler in my mind. 

Meanwhile, it isn't even true that the Ottomans killed all Christians, so if we are going to look at "comparative genocides" then your argument still fails.  And they didn't go after the Jews, either, as almost every state that has come afterwords has done.

[jokerman]

Positive as an overall historical entity.  A paradigm for a modern construction of state and society for the rest of Europe for a long time.  It was the last gasp of the Muslim civilization; certainly it was grotesque in its last sickly days.

[SPC]

Very Negative. What they did to Greeks and Armenians was sickening. Without a doubt the worst of the Central Powers.

[Хahar 🤔]

Neutral, which is as positive as my opinion of any state of that day and age. The Empire kept peace in Europe for a lot longer than would otherwise have been the case.

[Kevinstat]

All Balkan countries under former Ottoman rule still have substantial Muslim minorities, there are no Christians left in Turkey.

Well part of the reason for the latter would be the Greco-Turkish war by which time the Ottoman Empire was effectively over and the 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey (Wikipedia article here) that followed, although the article states that "In fact only about 400,000 Greeks were exchanged since most had already been expelled by the advancing [T]urkish forces."  And I know there are still some Armenians in Turkey as I read that they were more supportive of the majority party in Turkey (which has Muslim fundimentalist origins) in an election a couple years ago or so.  Still, I'm sure a lot of the reduction in the number of Christians in Turkey, particularly in the east, is due to ethnic cleansing and other atrocities during the Ottoman reign.