Public option

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Lunar seems to be forgetting that Reid has no halfway serious opponents.

[Lunar]

Lunar seems to be forgetting that Reid has no halfway serious opponents.

I'm one of the biggest defenders of Reid's electoral prospects, I do think he's going to dismantle his opposition by unloading maybe $20 million at poor Sue, who hardly has bipartisan credentials herself.

But do you really friggin' think Reid is going to muscle the bill through?  When has Reid EVER shown that sort willpower or aggression?  When has the White House?  Pelosi would, sure, but she already did her job. 

I mean, personally, I would prefer reconciliation if it meant a bill that was less watered down to   protect insurance company profits, but we're talking about what Reid is going to do, and he's not going to do reconciliation.  the end.

[Sbane]

Yeah Reid is a pussy. We already knew this. I just disagree with you that reconciliation would harm the democrats much. Sure it will hurt for a while, and will hurt the dems more than the republicans but it will amount to maybe a few seats in the house at maximum.

[Lunar]

Yeah Reid is a pussy. We already knew this. I just disagree with you that reconciliation would harm the democrats much. Sure it will hurt for a while, and will hurt the dems more than the republicans but it will amount to maybe a few seats in the house at maximum.

Well, there are a lot of potential consequences outside of the public saying "I don't like that parliamentary procedure."  No one is exactly sure what the bill would look like, what parts would be considered sufficiently budgetary-related for the parliamentarian, or if the Democrats who were passed over would accept the more popular parts of the bill sent through the normal legislative process.  The GOP would probably win the messaging war that Obama used his "Chicago tactics" or whatever to muscle in legislation that even his own Democrats wouldn't accept....and then Obama may end up burning a lot of bridges he'll need to pass other pieces of legislation (stuff that will actually be implemented before 2013, which a large part of this health care legislation will not)....

but this is all hypothetical, we all agree Reid doesn't have the balls,

[Sbane]

Yeah Reid is a pussy. We already knew this. I just disagree with you that reconciliation would harm the democrats much. Sure it will hurt for a while, and will hurt the dems more than the republicans but it will amount to maybe a few seats in the house at maximum.

Well, there are a lot of potential consequences outside of the public saying "I don't like that parliamentary procedure."  No one is exactly sure what the bill would look like, what parts would be considered sufficiently budgetary-related for the parliamentarian, or if the Democrats who were passed over would accept the more popular parts of the bill sent through the normal legislative process.  The GOP would probably win the messaging war that Obama used his "Chicago tactics" or whatever to muscle in legislation that even his own Democrats wouldn't accept....and then Obama may end up burning a lot of bridges he'll need to pass other pieces of legislation (stuff that will actually be implemented before 2013, which a large part of this health care legislation will not)....

but this is all hypothetical, we all agree Reid doesn't have the balls,

Yes this is certainly not something to be used lightly. That being said, health care is probably the most important piece of legislation democrats have to pass before going back to the voters. I don't see what else could take precedence over this. But I suppose as long as some sort of public option is in the bill the democrats can claim victory, even if it is an useless trigger.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Yeah Reid is a pussy. We already knew this. I just disagree with you that reconciliation would harm the democrats much. Sure it will hurt for a while, and will hurt the dems more than the republicans but it will amount to maybe a few seats in the house at maximum.

Well, there are a lot of potential consequences outside of the public saying "I don't like that parliamentary procedure."  No one is exactly sure what the bill would look like, what parts would be considered sufficiently budgetary-related for the parliamentarian, or if the Democrats who were passed over would accept the more popular parts of the bill sent through the normal legislative process.  The GOP would probably win the messaging war that Obama used his "Chicago tactics" or whatever to muscle in legislation that even his own Democrats wouldn't accept....and then Obama may end up burning a lot of bridges he'll need to pass other pieces of legislation (stuff that will actually be implemented before 2013, which a large part of this health care legislation will not)....

The public will recoil from the Democrats because they used a certain parliamentary procedure? Really?
I bet that half the public doesn't even know the meaning of the word reconciliation.

And in that kind of anti-incumbent climate it's far more preferable to be seen as someone who uses "Chicago tactics" in order to get things done, rather than someone who sits on his hands and does nothing.

And LOL at the part about burning bridges he will need. Do you really think that if Reid doesn't use reconciliation than the Republicans will suddenly mellow and become more concilliatory?

[Lunar]

Yeah Reid is a pussy. We already knew this. I just disagree with you that reconciliation would harm the democrats much. Sure it will hurt for a while, and will hurt the dems more than the republicans but it will amount to maybe a few seats in the house at maximum.

Well, there are a lot of potential consequences outside of the public saying "I don't like that parliamentary procedure."  No one is exactly sure what the bill would look like, what parts would be considered sufficiently budgetary-related for the parliamentarian, or if the Democrats who were passed over would accept the more popular parts of the bill sent through the normal legislative process.  The GOP would probably win the messaging war that Obama used his "Chicago tactics" or whatever to muscle in legislation that even his own Democrats wouldn't accept....and then Obama may end up burning a lot of bridges he'll need to pass other pieces of legislation (stuff that will actually be implemented before 2013, which a large part of this health care legislation will not)....

The public will recoil from the Democrats because they used a certain parliamentary procedure? Really?

That's not what I said.

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That's not how they'll encounter the term.

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Maybe, but they're not going to be seeing lower premiums before 2013 and all of the things which will be immediately implementable, as far as I can discern, are things which aren't even going to go through reconciliation, as if that procedure is used, the stuff like the preexisting conditions stuff will just be sent through the normal legislative process and filibuster.

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I wasn't talking about Republicans.  But yes, I do think that it would have an impact.  But that's not really something that I particularly care to argue as it's an awfully grey, uncertain area.

Fundamentally, Reid and the White House would rather have a watered down healthcare bill without a public option than use reconciliation for a bill with the public option, that's all this comes down to.  the alternative is not "no bill' or "no reform"