Interesting PA article - Can McCain really win PA?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 12, 2024, 06:32:47 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2008 Elections
  Interesting PA article - Can McCain really win PA?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Interesting PA article - Can McCain really win PA?  (Read 1617 times)
Moooooo
nickshepDEM
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,909


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 29, 2008, 07:12:42 PM »

Sorry if a repost:

RCP:

The intelligent question thrown out among strategists for both campaigns is, can John McCain really win Pennsylvania?

Really win it, not pretend to go for it, as Republicans did in 2004, all the while closing the deal in Ohio when no one was looking.

The last Republican presidential candidate to win Pennsylvania was George H.W. Bush, in 1988 -- a win preceded by two Reagans but followed by two Clintons, a Gore and a Kerry. The Kerry win was narrower than the others, however.

Since this year's Pennsylvania primaries, many people have been schooled on the mechanics of how Democrats win this state. Call it the "Rendell rule": Stack up high numbers in the Philly collar counties, hold the losses to a minimum in the other 60, and try to win Allegheny for good measure.

Can Barack Obama pull off a Rendell?

Villanova University political science professor Bob Maranto says political undercurrents are playing against him. "This is an old state, demographically, and some older white voters will be reluctant to vote for a black candidate," he explains, "but there is something more at work. Even if they call themselves independents, most voters more or less automatically vote either Democratic or Republican."

Maranto calculates that the 20 percent or so of voters who really are up for grabs will use information about a candidate's background to make assumptions about his policy views.

Pennsylvanians don't see McCain in the "failed Bush policies" category by which Democrats try to define him. Instead, they see a war hero, a brand that resonates in the blue-collar areas where their unions are trying to persuade them otherwise.

"He is a guy you can depend on," said Tom Miller, 54, of Lancaster, a registered Democrat who is very comfortable voting for McCain. "He has had no problem bucking his own party and he does not ask me to make sacrifices that he isn't willing to make."

Add the stereotypes that some voters hold about black candidates and Obama dilutes the Rendell rule.

So, where can McCain offset traditional Democrat voting blocs?

In Allegheny, Bucks and Chester counties, where a large number of those voters live.

To win Allegheny, McCain must win the entire South Hills area minus Mt. Lebanon. He also must win the new suburban areas around the airport, as well as the Mon Valley, where poorer working white voters live. He can easily sweep the North Hills as well as the small river towns.

Achieve that, and McCain offsets Pittsburgh's black and elite-liberal numbers.

McCain also must win Bucks County, where he should have Sarah Palin establish residency in the large churches in the northern half while he camps out in southern Bucks.

Chester County will be the hardest. McCain won't win West Chester, but the rest of the county -- a one-time Republican stronghold -- is persuadable.

All three counties have healthy-sized veterans populaces, with lots of socially conservative labor-Catholic Democrats -- all voters that professor Maranto views as weaknesses for Obama.

Democrat analyst Larry Ceisler admits problems exist for Obama in counties like Washington, Beaver and Fayette, but he is not quite sold on the idea that McCain can win Allegheny, Chester and Bucks.

The unknown factor in Obama's favor is the latest statewide voter-registration number. Obama state director Craig Schirmer issued a statement last week touting 1 million-plus more registered Democrats than Republicans, double the lead of 2004.

Perhaps the bigger argument is that if McCain is posting Bush 2004 poll numbers in Pennsylvania in the waning days of this election, it indicates that Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are already lost to Obama. Pennsylvania is just that small percentage point more Democrat than her Rust-Belt sisters.

University of Virginia political science professor Larry Sabato says his tentative conclusion is that McCain should not allow the money to run in Pennsylvania unless he has unlimited resources, and instead should look west. His argument: If McCain is close in Pennsylvania, then he already is well above 300 Electoral College votes and won't need it to win.

Salena Zito is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review editorial page columnist.

Logged
phk
phknrocket1k
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,906


Political Matrix
E: 1.42, S: -1.22

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 07:13:46 PM »

He's certainly capable of winning it, but I doubt it.

McCain could win PA if the partisan climate was a little more 50-50 however.
Logged
Iosif
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,609


Political Matrix
E: -1.68, S: -3.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 07:16:33 PM »

Of course he can, it's McCain-Palin country. Anecdotal evidence trumps polls.
Logged
Lunar
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,404
Ireland, Republic of
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 07:19:16 PM »

Interesting article.

Question: What generates more aggravating comments: Palin-is-stupid threads, or any thread about PA politics?  Tongue
Logged
Likely Voter
Moderators
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,344


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 07:34:39 PM »

Yes he can win, but McCain is spending a whole lot of money there, more than any other state. (according to the Wisconsin Project)

McCain has been spending too much money on offense and needs to move back to a more defensive posture. If he can hold just the states that Bush won twice (losing IA, NM and NH) he would still win. It is states like CO and VA he should be worried about not PA
Logged
True Democrat
true democrat
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,368
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.10, S: -2.87

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 07:37:57 PM »

McCain will not win Allegheny, especially not with the black turnout from the city, and the incredible support Obama is going to get in the richer, southern suburbs.
Logged
Keystone Phil
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 52,607


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 08:06:26 PM »

Of course he can, it's McCain-Palin country. Anecdotal evidence trumps polls.

Greater analysis in the longer term trumps polls a month out.
Logged
Iosif
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,609


Political Matrix
E: -1.68, S: -3.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 08:17:46 PM »

Of course he can, it's McCain-Palin country. Anecdotal evidence trumps polls.

Greater analysis in the longer term trumps polls a month out.

You've got that right. I've always wondered why firms pour money and effort into polling when they can get the professional, on the scence analysis of a teenager off the internet for free.

Why call hundreds of people in various geographical locations every week to ask who they'd vote for when on the ground questioning of a half dozen people is all that's needed?

I think someone should write Scott Rasmussen a letter.
Logged
Keystone Phil
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 52,607


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 08:19:36 PM »

Of course he can, it's McCain-Palin country. Anecdotal evidence trumps polls.

Greater analysis in the longer term trumps polls a month out.

You've got that right. I've always wondered why firms pour money and effort into polling when they can get the professional, on the scence analysis of a teenager off the internet for free

....analysis that is often backed up by more than just some teenager on the internet as demonstrated in this article.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not saying that polling is meaningless, troll. I'm saying that there is more to analyzing a race than polling.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,064


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 08:24:55 PM »

....analysis that is often backed up by more than just some teenager on the internet as demonstrated in this article.

No.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Salena Zito is a conservative and a Freeper. I wouldn't call a Paul Krugman blog post an article, either.
Logged
Keystone Phil
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 52,607


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 08:28:37 PM »

....analysis that is often backed up by more than just some teenager on the internet as demonstrated in this article.

No.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Salena Zito is a conservative and a Freeper. I wouldn't call a Paul Krugman blog post an article, either.

Read the article. Ceisler (a well known, well respected Democratic consultant from Philly) admits that there may be trouble but he's just not "sold" that McCain can win. That's not a ringing endorsement of Obama's standing in the state.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 08:29:45 PM »

If the polling was grouped around Obama +1, I'd give PA to McCain.  It hasn't been, so I'd give it to Obama.
Logged
Lunar
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,404
Ireland, Republic of
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 08:31:25 PM »

I thought the Bradley Effect was <1% in PA, how has it gone to become >1%?
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,064


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 08:32:31 PM »

If the polling was grouped around Obama +1, I'd give PA to McCain.  It hasn't been, so I'd give it to Obama.

Yes, this and every other Penn. discussion resolves back to how far PA is off the national average. Given the national average right now... I have nothing new to say that hasn't been said before.

Yes, McCain "can" win PA, but only under macro conditions that have become quite unlikely if not impossible since mid-September.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.23 seconds with 11 queries.