Hillary simply could not bow out gracefully

[Lincoln Republican]

Hillary Clinton's speech in New York City has shown, once again, that, in Hillary's world, this is all about Hillary.

She did not bow out and endorse Obama.

This was to be Barack Obama's night, claiming the nomination.

Yes, he claimed the nomination, but it would have been much more meaningful for the Democratic Party and in bringing Hillary Clinton's core constituency to Obama if Hillary had offered a meaningful and graceful concession and endorsement of Obama.

Thoughts?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

She is a HP who is trying to blackmail her way onto the ticket. Obama needs to throw her to the curb.

[JSojourner]

Hillary Clinton's speech in New York City has shown, once again, that, in Hillary's world, this is all about Hillary.

She did not bow out and endorse Obama.

This was to be Barack Obama's night, claiming the nomination.

Yes, he claimed the nomination, but it would have been much more meaningful for the Democratic Party and in bringing Hillary Clinton's core constituency to Obama if Hillary had offered a meaningful and graceful concession and endorsement of Obama.

Thoughts?

I don't wanna be too conciliatory here, because I do support Obama.  And I seriously think Clinton is playing fast and loose with the truth when she claims to have won the popular vote. 

But I believe she has some pretty pissed off supporters and she needs to ease out of this thing if she intends to help the party. There are those who support her who are talking about voting for McCain, voting third party, etc.  If she's going to persuade them to stay faithful to the party at all, she may think she needs to let them down gently.

 For someone who felt, acted and genuine believed she was entitled to the nomination (not without reason, either -- she was being talked about as the frontrunner long before Obama)...this is not going to be an overnight switch, even with a VP or Attorney General offer.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But I believe she has some pretty pissed off supporters and she needs to ease out of this thing if she intends to help the party.

They've had 3 months to face reality. Screw coddling them. It's time to lay down the cold hard facts.

[JSojourner]

But I believe she has some pretty pissed off supporters and she needs to ease out of this thing if she intends to help the party.

They've had 3 months to face reality. Screw coddling them. It's time to lay down the cold hard facts.

Obama may WANT her to coddle them a little more.  If she's really a team player, that is. I mean, if she brings it to a screeching halt right away, where do they go when the train lurches abruptly?  To McCain?  More than a few of them say they will. 

[nyquil_man]

I honestly have no idea what that speech was about. It veered between defiance and valediction and felt pieced together.

I don't know; perhaps the win in South Dakota energized the more combative elements within the Clinton campaign. I have no problem with giving those elements a little time to cool off.

[Democratic Hawk]

And I seriously think Clinton is playing fast and loose with the truth when she claims to have won the popular vote. 

You can say that again. She only wins that if her votes for MI are included - and Obama gets no votes there. Despite 35% of those exit polled would have cast votes for him, who in the event split 18% for Clinton and 19% uncommitted

Giving the MI uncommitteds to Obama and including the caucus estimates from IA, NV, ME and WA - he leads (just)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Not to mention the inflated assist given to Clinton by Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos"

Tonight, listening to Clinton, any one none the wiser, might as well think that she won 18 million votes to 17 million for Obama. It's just not true

Dave

[Beet]

No one knows whether the "Operation Chaos" really made any difference. Heck, the whole affair probably helped Obama more, because the media was hyping it up so much (and sorry, far more people watch CNN, MSNBC than listen to Rush) that Democrats probably thought that a vote for Hillary was to ally with Republicans so stayed home or voted Obama on that alone.

And secondly, the popular vote is awfully close, even if you give the caucus estimates up there (which, are estimates, not actual votes, but for the sake of determining the "popular will" let's include them) and give Obama all the uncommitteds in Michigan (which is generous, because although some voted Hillary who otherwise would have voted Obama, some Edwards supporters & other candidate supporters also voted undecided).

So the popular vote, is pretty much a tie. I wouldn't say Hillary has won it outright. She's technically correct in the claim, but morally Obama has a slight advantage, and it's fair for him to come back on this. Still, his campaign has been saying for months the popular vote doesn't matter...

I honestly have no idea what that speech was about. It veered between defiance and valediction and felt pieced together.

The speech was not about Obama at all. That's your key. It was the symbolic close of her campaign, and it paves the way for the next step; a concession & endorsement of Obama.

[Democratic Hawk]

No one knows whether the "Operation Chaos" really made any difference. Heck, the whole affair probably helped Obama more, because the media was hyping it up so much (and sorry, far more people watch CNN, MSNBC than listen to Rush) that Democrats probably thought that a vote for Hillary was to ally with Republicans so stayed home or voted Obama on that alone.

We'll never really know its effect - the only way of guessing would be to look at exit polls to see whether a greater % of Hillary voters would vote McCain against Clinton than the % of Obama voters who would vote McCain against Obama

9% of the total vote in MS primary were Republicans voting for Clinton (Republicans comprised 12% but split for Clinton 75-25) and I'm sceptical as to whether the bulk of these are genuine supporters

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I'm not disputing how close it is - but Clinton ain't got 18 million to 17 million for Obama

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Agreed

Dave

[J. J.]

One thing she'll probably do is see how well Obama will do in a match up with McCain.  It's nasty, but she could say, "Either you give me what I want or I pull a Ted Kennedy."  Would she do it?  Hell yes.

[nyquil_man]

Beet: I didn't expect it to be about Obama. Frankly, I didn't expect much of anything from it.

It wasn't for me - which may be why it felt cobbled together.

[JSojourner]

And I seriously think Clinton is playing fast and loose with the truth when she claims to have won the popular vote. 

You can say that again. She only wins that if her votes for MI are included - and Obama gets no votes there. Despite 35% of those exit polled would have cast votes for him, who in the event split 18% for Clinton and 19% uncommitted

Giving the MI uncommitteds to Obama and including the caucus estimates from IA, NV, ME and WA - he leads (just)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Not to mention the inflated assist given to Clinton by Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos"

Tonight, listening to Clinton, any one none the wiser, might as well think that she won 18 million votes to 17 million for Obama. It's just not true

Dave

As I understood it, for her to claim the popular vote total of 18 (Terry McAwful says 19) million, she gives nothing to Obama from Michigan or Florida, does not count the territories (PR, VI, GU) AND does not count a number of states where there were caucuses.  I could have it wrong.

No matter the total, she should be proud of how well she did against a pretty good field of contenders.  I see no need for her to play these games.

[Beet]

Beet: I didn't expect it to be about Obama. Frankly, I didn't expect much of anything from it.

It wasn't for me - which may be why it felt cobbled together.

Well, her entire coalition has been kind of cobbled together. She chose early on not to build her campaign around any particularly appealing central message-- and while that may have been a big mistake, it allowed her to win votes for very different reasons and adopt different personas at different points in the long campaign. Her coalition is basically pieced together of many people and groups with legitimate, but divergent, interests.

If there was one theme in her speech, it was the "invisible" angle-- putting herself as the champion of the working class. A very traditional, Democratic, populist theme.