Should a Country invade and annex Kalingrad Oblast from Russia

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

?

[Damocles]

Invasion? You mean special basic sociopolitical institution reform operation?

[Sirius_]

Some people think the 51st state will be Puerto Rico, others say it will be DC.

I have a different idea...

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Czechia

[Frodo]

Normally no, but if Russia uses nuclear weapons at any level (tactical or otherwise), then all bets are off.  In which case, it is not just Kaliningrad that will be up for grabs by NATO, but everything else, including the complete destruction of Russia as a military power, including all their overseas assets (Wagner included).  Nothing in Russia will be safe or off-limits to NATO if Putin is so foolish as to employ nuclear weapons.  We will ensure Russia will never rise again. 

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Does anything suggest people in Kalingrad are any less backwards and bigoted than Russians in Russia proper.

[Pericles]

They are Russians now, everyone is better off if they stay that way rather than being a problem minority for another country. That's why Lithuania and (allegedly) Germany refused it when it was offered.

[Epaminondas]

Does anything suggest people in Kalingrad are any less backwards and bigoted than Russians in Russia proper.

They're not. I've worked with a Lithuanian bank, Luminor. A decade ago the board had some old German Balts who sympathised with the plight of ex-Prussia, and were passionate about a plan to expand operations there. Eventually, they swayed the board.

It was a disaster.

The Russians did not care about any EU banking laws. Companies regularly claimed bankruptcy to weasel out of settlements, lied on documents and referred problems only to Russian financial courts, which were unfairly lenient towards their nationals.

After a couple of years Luminor pulled out after losing millions, out of the misplaced dream that a Germanic culture can take root again under the current Russian corruption and chicanery.

Lithuanian politicians wouldn't touch Kaliningrad with a 10 foot pole, even if the NATO served it on a platter.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://www.iss.europa.eu/content/future-kaliningrad

Article from 2002

Kaliningrad’s officials have to deal with the highest percentage of HIV infections in Europe and with an intimidating scale of organised crime. Large outdated industries face structural collapse, resulting in high unemployment rates. One third of Kaliningrad’s one million inhabitants live below the poverty level, and the average wage is 6 to 8 times lower than those of Lithuania and Poland. Kaliningrad’s environmental legacy also poses threats to the whole Baltic Sea region. The fundamental concern is that Kaliningrad will play less and less of a role in the region. Trade flows being are diverted away and the main transport routes are increasingly bypassing the exclave. Neighbouring countries have developed far more competitive economies.

Don't know if it improved but it wouldn't be exactly a "present" to own this.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Of course not.

However, if a handful of local volunteer groups (who just so happen to be extremely well-armed, well-organized, and fluent in Polish) were to undertake a special operation to topple the local Russian government, and then hold a referendum on the future of Kaliningrad, well, that's just democracy in action, right?  Vox Populi.  Who is a pro-democracy country like Russia to complain about people choosing their own destiny?

It also sure would be a shame if the A16 through Lithuania happened to be closed for repairs that week, and Poland just so happened to be doing naval drills in the Baltic sea.  Really inconvenient set of coincidences, if Russia were thinking about intervening militarily -- not that they would be, since a pro-democracy state would never violently suppress the democratic process.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Of course not.

However, if a handful of local volunteer groups (who just so happen to be extremely well-armed, well-organized, and fluent in Polish) were to undertake a special operation to topple the local Russian government, and then hold a referendum on the future of Kaliningrad, well, that's just democracy in action, right?  Vox Populi.  Who is a pro-democracy country like Russia to complain about people choosing their own destiny?

It also sure would be a shame if the A16 through Lithuania happened to be closed for repairs that week, and Poland just so happened to be doing naval drills in the Baltic sea.  Really inconvenient set of coincidences, if Russia were thinking about intervening militarily -- not that they would be, since a pro-democracy state would never violently suppress the democratic process.

Yeah but before we do that, let's also hold a referendum in Catalonia if Spain also is a true democracy. I'm sure they wouldn't object. True democracy in action, how can a democratic nation possibly ever object to that thought. Vox Populi

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is a very strange place. To a considerable extent people are essentially paid to live there.

[TheReckoning]

since a pro-democracy state would never violently suppress the democratic process.

*Soft Eagle noises in the background*

[GeneralMacArthur]

Of course not.

However, if a handful of local volunteer groups (who just so happen to be extremely well-armed, well-organized, and fluent in Polish) were to undertake a special operation to topple the local Russian government, and then hold a referendum on the future of Kaliningrad, well, that's just democracy in action, right?  Vox Populi.  Who is a pro-democracy country like Russia to complain about people choosing their own destiny?

It also sure would be a shame if the A16 through Lithuania happened to be closed for repairs that week, and Poland just so happened to be doing naval drills in the Baltic sea.  Really inconvenient set of coincidences, if Russia were thinking about intervening militarily -- not that they would be, since a pro-democracy state would never violently suppress the democratic process.

Yeah but before we do that, let's also hold a referendum in Catalonia if Spain also is a true democracy. I'm sure they wouldn't object. True democracy in action, how can a democratic nation possibly ever object to that thought. Vox Populi

The entire post is sarcastic... this is what Russia did in Crimea.

[RINO Tom]

They are Russians now, everyone is better off if they stay that way rather than being a problem minority for another country. That's why Lithuania and (allegedly) Germany refused it when it was offered.

Yes, of course there is not a situation where the people who were "originally there" are now just under Russian rule.  The area has been filled with ethnic Russians brought there from Russia for so many decades now that there is no good argument for having it "repatriated," even someone thinks it should have been included in a post-WWII Germany (my personal opinion, given the history of Königsberg ... the Allies' misplaced obsession from obliterating Prussia from history to blame here, of course).

However, this is a different question in a hypothetical where Russia has escalated things in Europe.  It might be a military necessity at some point to ensure Russia does not hold that area.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I'll pass on nuclear war, thanks.

[Mr. Smith]

Poland or Lithuania, just for the poetry and irony.

With Germany, it's just poetry.