Cause of Biden's underestimation?

[Pres Mike]

You can't blame the anger from Sanders and his supporters. Hillary won the primary fair and square, I acknowledge that as a Bernie voter. BUT the DNC had its thumb on the scale for Hillary and that was unfair and illegal. Hence that b**** DNC chair Debbie Schultz being forced to resign. Or banned from opening the convention? Did you forget that?

She was Hillary's 2008 campaign chair! How was she supposed to conduct a fair primary?
 

Even the Biden 2020 campaign wanted NOTHING to do with that b**** Debbie Schultz.

After all these years I still haven't heard HOW the primary was rigged against Sanders.
If anything, and that became even clearer in 2020, the primary was "rigged" in favor of him. The calendar, with two lily-white states going first, and the presence of so many caucuses is what kept him in despite his crushing losses in big, diverse states that conducted primaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak

Basically, staffers in the DNC emailed each other about possible ways to hurt the Sanders campaign. Like publicly asking him if he was a atheist before the West Virginia primary.

The DNC also emailed the Hillary campaign questions before the debates.

Only 6 debates were scheduled in the 2016 primary, compared to 20+ in 2008. And these debates were scheduled at the lowest possible viewership times like Saturday night (wtf) or the day before Thanksgiving.

The DNC briefly excluded the Sanders campaign from its voter data database.

The presence of caucuses and state schedule was established decades ago.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Basically, staffers in the DNC emailed each other about possible ways to hurt the Sanders campaign. Like publicly asking him if he was a atheist before the West Virginia primary.

Irrelevant. Random staffers have no power to alter DNC policy and I'm sure that some others disliked Hillary too.

Only 6 debates were scheduled in the 2016 primary, compared to 20+ in 2008. And these debates were scheduled at the lowest possible viewership times like Saturday night (wtf) or the day before Thanksgiving.

Considering the fact that Clinton dominated every single debate that seems to me more like incompetence that eventually hurt her more than Sanders who isn't the best debater out there, to put it lightly.

The DNC briefly excluded the Sanders campaign from its voter data database.

And rightly so. Sanders' campaign exploited DNC's trust and should have been held accountable.
The unfortunate thing is that DNC eventually caved to the online bullying by Bernie bros and their Russian friends and took back its decision in the spirit of "unity".

The presence of caucuses and state schedule was established decades ago.

That doesn't make them any less undemocratic and Sanders's strength in them a mirage as we saw four years later.

[Pres Mike]

Basically, staffers in the DNC emailed each other about possible ways to hurt the Sanders campaign. Like publicly asking him if he was a atheist before the West Virginia primary.

Irrelevant. Random staffers have no power to alter DNC policy and I'm sure that some others disliked Hillary too.

Only 6 debates were scheduled in the 2016 primary, compared to 20+ in 2008. And these debates were scheduled at the lowest possible viewership times like Saturday night (wtf) or the day before Thanksgiving.

Considering the fact that Clinton dominated every single debate that seems to me more like incompetence that eventually hurt her more than Sanders who isn't the best debater out there, to put it lightly.

The DNC briefly excluded the Sanders campaign from its voter data database.

And rightly so. Sanders' campaign exploited DNC's trust and should have been held accountable.
The unfortunate thing is that DNC eventually caved to the online bullying by Bernie bros and their Russian friends and took back its decision in the spirit of "unity".

The presence of caucuses and state schedule was established decades ago.

That doesn't make them any less undemocratic and Sanders's strength in them a mirage as we saw four years later.

1. If it was just random staffers, why did that b**** Debbie S resign? Even President Obama called on her to resign. And President Biden refuse to give her a spot in his 2020 campaign. She was involved in the emails and could control policy.

2. Incompetence with scheduling debates? Are you saying the Hillary campaign had a say when it came to scheduling? Do you think if Biden or Warren ran we would be having a debate on Saturday night?

3. Huh?

4. Yeah, caucuses are undemocratic. And Sanders has called for a more democratic process by removing super delegates. Removing super delegates in 2020 was rigging the primary for anyone, its the right thing to do.

[Landslide Lyndon]

1. If it was just random staffers, why did that b**** Debbie S resign? Even President Obama called on her to resign. And President Biden refuse to give her a spot in his 2020 campaign. She was involved in the emails and could control policy.

2. Incompetence with scheduling debates? Are you saying the Hillary campaign had a say when it came to scheduling? Do you think if Biden or Warren ran we would be having a debate on Saturday night?

3. Huh?

4. Yeah, caucuses are undemocratic. And Sanders has called for a more democratic process by removing super delegates. Removing super delegates in 2020 was rigging the primary for anyone, its the right thing to do.

1) I don't care about DWS. I always found her insufferable. Obama put her as DNC head to appease Jewish donors and it was one of his biggest mistakes.

2) Why would Hillary bury the debates when they were among her best campaign moments?

3) What's so difficult to understand. Sanders campaign operatives hacked into Clinton's voter database. That was a gross betrayal of DNC's trust and there should have been some kind of consequences instead of a slap on the wrist.

4) Superdelegates is an entirely different subject. Sanders loved caucuses and his representatives at the Unity Commission which made the rules for the 2020 primary fought tooth and nail to preserve as many of them.

[Pres Mike]

1. If it was just random staffers, why did that b**** Debbie S resign? Even President Obama called on her to resign. And President Biden refuse to give her a spot in his 2020 campaign. She was involved in the emails and could control policy.

2. Incompetence with scheduling debates? Are you saying the Hillary campaign had a say when it came to scheduling? Do you think if Biden or Warren ran we would be having a debate on Saturday night?

3. Huh?

4. Yeah, caucuses are undemocratic. And Sanders has called for a more democratic process by removing super delegates. Removing super delegates in 2020 was rigging the primary for anyone, its the right thing to do.

1) I don't care about DWS. I always found her insufferable. Obama put her as DNC head to appease Jewish donors and it was one of his biggest mistakes.

2) Why would Hillary bury the debates when they were among her best campaign moments?

3) What's so difficult to understand. Sanders campaign operatives hacked into Clinton's voter database. That was a gross betrayal of DNC's trust and there should have been some kind of consequences instead of a slap on the wrist.

4) Superdelegates is an entirely different subject. Sanders loved caucuses and his representatives at the Unity Commission which made the rules for the 2020 primary fought tooth and nail to preserve as many of them.

1. You keep saying the primary wasn't rigged. You can't ignore DWS. She was the DNC chair and was forced to resign. You have to address her.

2. Once again, Hillary was never supposed to have a role when debates were held. Are you saying she did? I don't think she did but it was obvious that DWS wanted low viewership times (Saturday night/day before Thanksgiving) to prevent it from hurting Hillary. That was the goal, even if Hillary did well.

3. Bernie Sanders did not order the breach. The hackers were fired and turned over to police by the Sanders campaign. The hackers said they operated on their own. You can't punish the entire Sanders campaign. Hence the public backlash led the DNC to stand down

4. Huh? Each states determines if it will use a primary/caucus system. That has nothing to do with the DNC. Half the states in America have Republican governments, why should they care what Democrats want? Biden wants South Carolina and Georgia to be moved up in the primary calender for 2024, their republican governments wont do that.

[Landslide Lyndon]

1. You keep saying the primary wasn't rigged. You can't ignore DWS. She was the DNC chair and was forced to resign. You have to address her.

2. Once again, Hillary was never supposed to have a role when debates were held. Are you saying she did? I don't think she did but it was obvious that DWS wanted low viewership times (Saturday night/day before Thanksgiving) to prevent it from hurting Hillary. That was the goal, even if Hillary did well.

3. Bernie Sanders did not order the breach. The hackers were fired and turned over to police by the Sanders campaign. The hackers said they operated on their own. You can't punish the entire Sanders campaign. Hence the public backlash led the DNC to stand down

4. Huh? Each states determines if it will use a primary/caucus system. That has nothing to do with the DNC. Half the states in America have Republican governments, why should they care what Democrats want? Biden wants South Carolina and Georgia to be moved up in the primary calender for 2024, their republican governments wont do that.

1) I don't ignore her. I say that she was an incompetent fool who made a mess out of the 2016 primary. If you don't like my answer then sorry but that's the one I have.

2) You are the one saying that Hillary conspired with DWS to bury the debates. I just say that your theory makes zero sense.

3) Sure.

4) You seem confused about DNC's role. Many states after 2016 were willing to move from caucus to primary (Minnesota, Maine, Colorado) but Sanders and his allies did everything they could to prevent that from happening. Thankfully they lost.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie had nothing to with the breech, the employee had been recommended to him by the DNC, and they might have just been gathering information for a bug report.  It's beyond ridiculous to attack Bernie for that.

[Pres Mike]

1. You keep saying the primary wasn't rigged. You can't ignore DWS. She was the DNC chair and was forced to resign. You have to address her.

2. Once again, Hillary was never supposed to have a role when debates were held. Are you saying she did? I don't think she did but it was obvious that DWS wanted low viewership times (Saturday night/day before Thanksgiving) to prevent it from hurting Hillary. That was the goal, even if Hillary did well.

3. Bernie Sanders did not order the breach. The hackers were fired and turned over to police by the Sanders campaign. The hackers said they operated on their own. You can't punish the entire Sanders campaign. Hence the public backlash led the DNC to stand down

4. Huh? Each states determines if it will use a primary/caucus system. That has nothing to do with the DNC. Half the states in America have Republican governments, why should they care what Democrats want? Biden wants South Carolina and Georgia to be moved up in the primary calender for 2024, their republican governments wont do that.

1) I don't ignore her. I say that she was an incompetent fool who made a mess out of the 2016 primary. If you don't like my answer then sorry but that's the one I have.

2) You are the one saying that Hillary conspired with DWS to bury the debates. I just say that your theory makes zero sense.

3) Sure.

4) You seem confused about DNC's role. Many states after 2016 were willing to move from caucus to primary (Minnesota, Maine, Colorado) but Sanders and his allies did everything they could to prevent that from happening. Thankfully they lost.

1. Can you answer my question? Did DWS attempt to rig the 2016 primary for Hillary?

2. I did not say Hillary conspired to bury the debates. I do not think she did, because DWS did it for her.

Answer me this. Do you think it was weird that only 6 debates were planned? And do you think it was weird they were scheduled at odd times? Compared to 2008 with 20+ prime time debates. Or 2020.

And do you think DWS did this on purpose to help Hillary Clinton?

3. Can't tell if this is scarsam

[Senator Incitatus]

It helps to remember the unique set of circumstances which catapulted Biden to presumptive status:  a massive, coordinated and instant winnowing of the field to give him the nomination.

Let's dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.

[Crumpets]

One underrated reason: I don't think many people saw the Sanders-Warren split occurring the way it did. The idea that Warren would drop out and endorse any of the more centrist candidates while Sanders was still actively contesting the race would have sounded like total fantasy to all but the most conspiratorial and cynical Sanders supporters up until about a week before it happened.

[Pres Mike]

One underrated reason: I don't think many people saw the Sanders-Warren split occurring the way it did. The idea that Warren would drop out and endorse any of the more centrist candidates while Sanders was still actively contesting the race would have sounded like total fantasy to all but the most conspiratorial and cynical Sanders supporters up until about a week before it happened.

Warren didn’t endorse anyone?

[Crumpets]

One underrated reason: I don't think many people saw the Sanders-Warren split occurring the way it did. The idea that Warren would drop out and endorse any of the more centrist candidates while Sanders was still actively contesting the race would have sounded like total fantasy to all but the most conspiratorial and cynical Sanders supporters up until about a week before it happened.

Warren didn’t endorse anyone?

You're right, I had my timing mixed up. I thought Warren endorsed Biden along with Klobuchar and Buttigieg and the like, but it was after Bernie suspended his campaign. What I should have said was that everyone was expecting Sanders to get the lion's share of Warren supporters and that she would endorse him if he dropped out (and vice versa if Warren had bested Sanders in the early states). But there was so much bad blood between Sanders supporters and Warren supporters by the time she dropped out, he got almost no benefit from it, and the polling I remember from the time showed Warren supporters breaking for Biden over Sanders - which is really something I doubt anyone would have predicted until it happened.

[Pres Mike]

One underrated reason: I don't think many people saw the Sanders-Warren split occurring the way it did. The idea that Warren would drop out and endorse any of the more centrist candidates while Sanders was still actively contesting the race would have sounded like total fantasy to all but the most conspiratorial and cynical Sanders supporters up until about a week before it happened.

Warren didn’t endorse anyone?

You're right, I had my timing mixed up. I thought Warren endorsed Biden along with Klobuchar and Buttigieg and the like, but it was after Bernie suspended his campaign. What I should have said was that everyone was expecting Sanders to get the lion's share of Warren supporters and that she would endorse him if he dropped out (and vice versa if Warren had bested Sanders in the early states). But there was so much bad blood between Sanders supporters and Warren supporters by the time she dropped out, he got almost no benefit from it, and the polling I remember from the time showed Warren supporters breaking for Biden over Sanders - which is really something I doubt anyone would have predicted until it happened.

Warren did not endorse anyone, despite everyone expecting her to endorse Bernie. Her not endorsinf before Super Tuesday cost Bernie states like Texas. Her not endorsing Bernie was a de facto endorsment of Biden. Everyone knew that.

Was it because of bad blood? I don't think so, Warren wanted to be VP.

And actually throughout the campaign, Sanders voters listed Biden as second choice. Biden voters named Bernie as their second choice. Warren supporters were more likely to name Buttigieg as their second choice.

Its the classic "Beer vs wine" debate in the Democratic party. Working class voters liked Biden and Bernie. Suburban moms and the Intelligestia liked Warren.

[Sumner 1868]

Its the classic "Beer vs wine" debate in the Democratic party. Working class voters liked Biden and Bernie. Suburban moms and the Intelligestia liked Warren.

Correct. I always found it amusing how virtually non-existent Warren's Hispanic vote was despite her non-stop idpol toward that demographic.