Opinion of this meme?

[Schiff for Senate]

Yeah, you need to more than just virtue signal. Actual substance and policy matters a whole lot more than cheap pandering.

And somehow you still find yourself simping for the Dems, despite the constant virtue signaling and cheap pandering on their end.

I don't "simp" for the Democrats. I've acknowledged I agree with far more of their actual policy than Republicans' policy, and that I agree with them on more than I disagree with them, but one major problem I have with them - which I've said multiple times - is wokeness and virtue signalling.

[Alben Barkley]

It's literally the opposite of the truth.

LOL

https://twitter.com/ChrisRBarron/status/793070427442667521
Republican holds pride flag... must be "Far Right™"





Image Source and Article.

The burden is on us as social media consumers to reward the right messages with our attention and do the same for our politicians who intend to bring us together as Americans. It may not be as simple as it sounds, but if we’re able to turn the tide against polarization and bring down some of the heat around big issues, we can finally come together in 2020 and start off 2021 on the right foot.

IDK what the hell this "source" is supposed to be, but the much more universally recognized and accepted DW-NOMINATE system which tracks party ideology by Congressional voting record clearly shows Republicans have moved farther right than Democrats have left:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/03/10/the-polarization-in-todays-congress-has-roots-that-go-back-decades/

"Trump held up a Pride flag, therefore is pro-LGBT" is so laughable it doesn't even dignify the responses it's already had in this thread.

[Alben Barkley]

Yeah, you need to more than just virtue signal. Actual substance and policy matters a whole lot more than cheap pandering.

And somehow you still find yourself simping for the Dems, despite the constant virtue signaling and cheap pandering on their end.

I don't "simp" for the Democrats. I've acknowledged I agree with far more of their actual policy than Republicans' policy, and that I agree with them on more than I disagree with them, but one major problem I have with them - which I've said multiple times - is wokeness and virtue signalling.

By this logic I'm not a Democrat either lol.

We need more normal people to own the Democratic label just like we need more Democrats to own the American flag and patriotism. We can't let Republicans be proud of who they are despite their intraparty differences, let alone own national pride as well, while Democrats seem at best mildly embarrassed to be who they are and/or to be American. Symbols and labels matter far more than many left-leaning people seem to realize or acknowledge.

TL;DR: Come to the D side. We have cookies.

[Del Tachi]

Charts of the day:  here's a partisan history of the culture wars since 2000

Basically, Democrats' stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, gun control, taxes and religion have moved fairly dramatically toward a more liberal point of view.  Republicans, on the other hand, didn't necessarily always shift in a conservative direction - they've become more supportive of gay marriage, for instance - and when they did move rightward, the shift was milder.

[Del Tachi]

Looking at Trump's policy, he reinstated the ban on trans people serving in the military that Barack Obama lifted. Speaking of Obama's legacy on LGBT rights, aside from lifting the transgender military ban, he and the Democrats in Congress also repealed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly in the military in 2011, and he was the first president to endorse gay marriage in history in 2012. The landmark decision Obergefell v Hodges allowing gay marriage nationally was ruled on ideological lines: the 4 Republican-appointed justices dissented, and the 5 Democratic-appointed justices constituting the majority issues the majority opinion.

Your post is great evidence of exactly how far left the Democrats have moved on gay marriage!  Republicans have actually moved left on this issue too, but not as quickly or as much.  DADT/DOMA were Democrat-supported policies. 

Also, FYI the majority opinion in Obergefell was authored by a GOP-appointed justice (Kennedy.)     

[Del Tachi]

The idea that Republicans haven’t moved right since 2008 is hilarious.

Well then, on exactly which issues have they moved so far towards the right?

Trump is easily the most protectionist, least interventionist president since Nixon or Eisenhower.  A majority of Republicans now accept gay marriage.   

I think you're falling for the old fallacy of "Trump=bad!" and "conservative=bad!" so therefore "Trump=conservative!" 

[Alben Barkley]

Charts of the day:  here's a partisan history of the culture wars since 2000

Basically, Democrats' stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, gun control, taxes and religion have moved fairly dramatically toward a more liberal point of view.  Republicans, on the other hand, didn't necessarily always shift in a conservative direction - they've become more supportive of gay marriage, for instance - and when they did move rightward, the shift was milder.

I notice the only "sources" you all can provide are random right-wing blogs with subjective interpretations on culture war issues laughably presenting themselves as pseudoscientific evaluations of actual ideological drift, whereas I actually presented legitimate heavyweight sources like Pew Research Center and DW-NOMINATE which confirm what anyone with two eyes to see and an IQ over 70 already knew intuitively: The Republican Party has drifted significantly more to the right than the Democratic Party has to the left in recent years. There is a reason the average Republican today sounds far more like Pat Buchanan than George Bush circa 1992, whereas the average Democrat isn't THAT far removed from Bill Clinton circa 1992.

Of course, I did take note of the fact that you didn't actually dare to respond to me or my sources this time. Probably because I have publicly humiliated and eviscerated you badly a couple times within the past week or so alone.

Well, here's a third time, "DT." The other guy with your initials is at least entertaining, and no more irrational frankly.

[Alben Barkley]

The idea that Republicans haven’t moved right since 2008 is hilarious.

Well then, on exactly which issues have they moved so far towards the right?

Trump is easily the most protectionist, least interventionist president since Nixon or Eisenhower.  A majority of Republicans now accept gay marriage.  

I think you're falling for the old fallacy of "Trump=bad!" and "conservative=bad!" so therefore "Trump=conservative!"  

Protectionism does not equal liberal; it's the opposite actually, genius. Free trade is and always has been a liberal policy. Again, Pat Buchanan. His paleocon, bats--t crazy vision for the GOP is what Trump realized essentially. Same goes for his isolationist insanity.

As far as your nonsense about "Hurr durr DOMA was a Democrat policy!" Well gee, give me the list of pro-gay Republicans who voted against it then... Oh, that's right! There were none. It was a bipartisan policy explicitly reluctantly signed by Clinton (in an effort to avoid a Constitutional amendment) but mostly pushed by Republicans and right-wing activists and media personalities. Rush Limbaugh used to openly mock every gay man who died from AIDS. How you simp for a party that literally would celebrate your death is completely beyond my comprehension. I guess I'm just not good enough at mental gymnastics for that one.

And don't even get me started on DADT: Celebrated as a huge advance for gay rights at the time! A compromise from Clinton's very vocal initial stance of allowing gays to openly serve, shot down by... You guessed it: Republicans!

[Schiff for Senate]

Looking at Trump's policy, he reinstated the ban on trans people serving in the military that Barack Obama lifted. Speaking of Obama's legacy on LGBT rights, aside from lifting the transgender military ban, he and the Democrats in Congress also repealed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly in the military in 2011, and he was the first president to endorse gay marriage in history in 2012. The landmark decision Obergefell v Hodges allowing gay marriage nationally was ruled on ideological lines: the 4 Republican-appointed justices dissented, and the 5 Democratic-appointed justices constituting the majority issues the majority opinion.

Your post is great evidence of exactly how far left the Democrats have moved on gay marriage!  Republicans have actually moved left on this issue too, but not as quickly or as much.  DADT/DOMA were Democrat-supported policies.  

Also, FYI the majority opinion in Obergefell was authored by a GOP-appointed justice (Kennedy.)      

I also acknowledged that DOMA was supported by a lot of Democrats, and yes, DADT was Clinton's brainchild. However, given that you are a gay person, I can’t imagine you’re actually complaining that Democrats have shifted leftward on SSM and now strongly support gay rights. I don’t get it; are you saying it’s bad that Democrats are ‘far left’ on gay marriage, or just observing it (if the latter, then yeah - it’s crazy that just 15 years ago a lot of Democrats were anti-SSM and supported things like DOMA?

Regarding Kennedy, I thought he was a Democrat-appointed justice. My mistake.

[Schiff for Senate]

Yeah, you need to more than just virtue signal. Actual substance and policy matters a whole lot more than cheap pandering.

And somehow you still find yourself simping for the Dems, despite the constant virtue signaling and cheap pandering on their end.

I don't "simp" for the Democrats. I've acknowledged I agree with far more of their actual policy than Republicans' policy, and that I agree with them on more than I disagree with them, but one major problem I have with them - which I've said multiple times - is wokeness and virtue signalling.

By this logic I'm not a Democrat either lol.

We need more normal people to own the Democratic label just like we need more Democrats to own the American flag and patriotism. We can't let Republicans be proud of who they are despite their intraparty differences, let alone own national pride as well, while Democrats seem at best mildly embarrassed to be who they are and/or to be American. Symbols and labels matter far more than many left-leaning people seem to realize or acknowledge.

TL;DR: Come to the D side. We have cookies.

You also oppose gun control though, which is a pretty substantial difference (the other thing about wokeism is that it’s a very superficial problem, and is not nearly as troublesome or as important as, say, the GOP position on the vaccine and on the 2020 election).

Regarding the TLDR: Well yeah in practice I already am a Democrat. I support Democratic candidates most of the time. But I still like to think of myself as an Independent, because I am moderate on most issues and disagree with the Democrats on quite a few things (not just wokeism).

[Del Tachi]

Charts of the day:  here's a partisan history of the culture wars since 2000

Basically, Democrats' stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, gun control, taxes and religion have moved fairly dramatically toward a more liberal point of view.  Republicans, on the other hand, didn't necessarily always shift in a conservative direction - they've become more supportive of gay marriage, for instance - and when they did move rightward, the shift was milder.

I notice the only "sources" you all can provide are random right-wing blogs with subjective interpretations on culture war issues laughably presenting themselves as pseudoscientific evaluations of actual ideological drift, whereas I actually presented legitimate heavyweight sources like Pew Research Center and DW-NOMINATE which confirm what anyone with two eyes to see and an IQ over 70 already knew intuitively: The Republican Party has drifted significantly more to the right than the Democratic Party has to the left in recent years. There is a reason the average Republican today sounds far more like Pat Buchanan than George Bush circa 1992, whereas the average Democrat isn't THAT far removed from Bill Clinton circa 1992.

Of course, I did take note of the fact that you didn't actually dare to respond to me or my sources this time. Probably because I have publicly humiliated and eviscerated you badly a couple times within the past week or so alone.

Well, here's a third time, "DT." The other guy with your initials is at least entertaining, and no more irrational frankly.

What the hell are you talking about?

All the polls I referenced are either Pew or Gallup, two established and reputable polling organizations.  Kevin Drum himself is a writer for Mother Jones, which is far from a Republican outfit. 

DW-NOMINATE is a flawed metric in that it very subjectively assigns legislation on a continuum of -1 (very liberal) to 1 (very conservative.)  This makes it quite easy to create the result you want by simply depicting legislation you favor as "moderate" (value=0.)  The system has no fixed values and cannot account for broad cultural changes (which is what OP's "meme" is getting at.)  A right-winger who voted against the Civil Rights Act in 1964 would receive the same score (+1) as a Republican who votes against affirmative action today.  DW-NOMINATE is a useful system for comparing members of the same Congress relative to one another, but cannot be used to tell you anything about how a party changes over several decades.   

Polling voters as to what they believe and tracking how their responses change over time is a much more reliable way to understand shifts in public opinion than using subjectively ranked votes taken in Congress as a proxy.  As this polling suggests, it is actually Democrats who shifted more on issues like immigration, gay marriage, gun laws, etc.

[Alben Barkley]

Yeah, you need to more than just virtue signal. Actual substance and policy matters a whole lot more than cheap pandering.

And somehow you still find yourself simping for the Dems, despite the constant virtue signaling and cheap pandering on their end.

I don't "simp" for the Democrats. I've acknowledged I agree with far more of their actual policy than Republicans' policy, and that I agree with them on more than I disagree with them, but one major problem I have with them - which I've said multiple times - is wokeness and virtue signalling.

By this logic I'm not a Democrat either lol.

We need more normal people to own the Democratic label just like we need more Democrats to own the American flag and patriotism. We can't let Republicans be proud of who they are despite their intraparty differences, let alone own national pride as well, while Democrats seem at best mildly embarrassed to be who they are and/or to be American. Symbols and labels matter far more than many left-leaning people seem to realize or acknowledge.

TL;DR: Come to the D side. We have cookies.

You also oppose gun control though, which is a pretty substantial difference (the other thing about wokeism is that it’s a very superficial problem, and is not nearly as troublesome or as important as, say, the GOP position on the vaccine and on the 2020 election).

Regarding the TLDR: Well yeah in practice I already am a Democrat. I support Democratic candidates most of the time. But I still like to think of myself as an Independent, because I am moderate on most issues and disagree with the Democrats on quite a few things (not just wokeism).

I am very much in the minority of my party regarding gun control, and in fact that issue is a great example of how it is possible to disagree with certain policies of a party (even substantial policies) but still identify with that party as representative of your views on a solid majority of issues.

I can't force you to change avatar colors, of course lol, but I actually think you probably agree with Democrats at least as much on "substantial" issues as me and no less than me on "trivial" issues like woke stuff. So ultimately it comes down to what symbols you are willing to adopt and own. I argue for making the Democratic Party a Big Tent party which people outside of a very select narrow range of views and rhetoric can and should own. That's all I'm really saying!

[Schiff for Senate]

Yeah, you need to more than just virtue signal. Actual substance and policy matters a whole lot more than cheap pandering.

And somehow you still find yourself simping for the Dems, despite the constant virtue signaling and cheap pandering on their end.

I don't "simp" for the Democrats. I've acknowledged I agree with far more of their actual policy than Republicans' policy, and that I agree with them on more than I disagree with them, but one major problem I have with them - which I've said multiple times - is wokeness and virtue signalling.

By this logic I'm not a Democrat either lol.

We need more normal people to own the Democratic label just like we need more Democrats to own the American flag and patriotism. We can't let Republicans be proud of who they are despite their intraparty differences, let alone own national pride as well, while Democrats seem at best mildly embarrassed to be who they are and/or to be American. Symbols and labels matter far more than many left-leaning people seem to realize or acknowledge.

TL;DR: Come to the D side. We have cookies.

You also oppose gun control though, which is a pretty substantial difference (the other thing about wokeism is that it’s a very superficial problem, and is not nearly as troublesome or as important as, say, the GOP position on the vaccine and on the 2020 election).

Regarding the TLDR: Well yeah in practice I already am a Democrat. I support Democratic candidates most of the time. But I still like to think of myself as an Independent, because I am moderate on most issues and disagree with the Democrats on quite a few things (not just wokeism).

I am very much in the minority of my party regarding gun control, and in fact that issue is a great example of how it is possible to disagree with certain policies of a party (even substantial policies) but still identify with that party as representative of your views on a solid majority of issues.

I can't force you to change avatar colors, of course lol, but I actually think you probably agree with Democrats at least as much on "substantial" issues as me and no less than me on "trivial" issues like woke stuff. So ultimately it comes down to what symbols you are willing to adopt and own. I argue for making the Democratic Party a Big Tent party which people outside of a very select narrow range of views and rhetoric can and should own. That's all I'm really saying!

Oh all right. If it really means that much to you, I’ll go the Lincoln Chaffee route and try out a D avatar for a bit.

[Del Tachi]

Looking at Trump's policy, he reinstated the ban on trans people serving in the military that Barack Obama lifted. Speaking of Obama's legacy on LGBT rights, aside from lifting the transgender military ban, he and the Democrats in Congress also repealed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly in the military in 2011, and he was the first president to endorse gay marriage in history in 2012. The landmark decision Obergefell v Hodges allowing gay marriage nationally was ruled on ideological lines: the 4 Republican-appointed justices dissented, and the 5 Democratic-appointed justices constituting the majority issues the majority opinion.

Your post is great evidence of exactly how far left the Democrats have moved on gay marriage!  Republicans have actually moved left on this issue too, but not as quickly or as much.  DADT/DOMA were Democrat-supported policies. 

Also, FYI the majority opinion in Obergefell was authored by a GOP-appointed justice (Kennedy.)     

I also acknowledged that DOMA was supported by a lot of Democrats, and yes, DADT was Clinton's brainchild. However, given that you are a gay person, I can’t imagine you’re actually complaining that Democrats have shifted leftward on SSM and now strongly support gay rights. I don’t get it; are you saying it’s bad that Democrats are ‘far left’ on gay marriage, or just observing it (if the latter, then yeah - it’s crazy that just 15 years ago a lot of Democrats were anti-SSM and supported things like DOMA?

Regarding Kennedy, I thought he was a Democrat-appointed justice. My mistake.

I'm not complaining that Democrats have moved left on SSM.  As I pointed out earlier, Republicans have moved left on SSM too.  My point is that Democrats are not the ideological constant deluded posters like Alben Barkley are claiming they are.  Democrats have shifted significantly to the left on several key issues, even from when Obama left office.   

[Schiff for Senate]

Looking at Trump's policy, he reinstated the ban on trans people serving in the military that Barack Obama lifted. Speaking of Obama's legacy on LGBT rights, aside from lifting the transgender military ban, he and the Democrats in Congress also repealed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly in the military in 2011, and he was the first president to endorse gay marriage in history in 2012. The landmark decision Obergefell v Hodges allowing gay marriage nationally was ruled on ideological lines: the 4 Republican-appointed justices dissented, and the 5 Democratic-appointed justices constituting the majority issues the majority opinion.

Your post is great evidence of exactly how far left the Democrats have moved on gay marriage!  Republicans have actually moved left on this issue too, but not as quickly or as much.  DADT/DOMA were Democrat-supported policies.  

Also, FYI the majority opinion in Obergefell was authored by a GOP-appointed justice (Kennedy.)      

I also acknowledged that DOMA was supported by a lot of Democrats, and yes, DADT was Clinton's brainchild. However, given that you are a gay person, I can’t imagine you’re actually complaining that Democrats have shifted leftward on SSM and now strongly support gay rights. I don’t get it; are you saying it’s bad that Democrats are ‘far left’ on gay marriage, or just observing it (if the latter, then yeah - it’s crazy that just 15 years ago a lot of Democrats were anti-SSM and supported things like DOMA?

Regarding Kennedy, I thought he was a Democrat-appointed justice. My mistake.

I'm not complaining that Democrats have moved left on SSM.  As I pointed out earlier, Republicans have moved left on SSM too.  My point is that Democrats are not the ideological constant deluded posters like Alben Barkley are claiming they are.  Democrats have shifted significantly to the left on several key issues, even from when Obama left office.  

They have indeed shifted to the left since Obama left office. I’m not denying that. The GOP on the other hand has not shifted leftward or even rightward since then, but simply towards insanity.

[KaiserDave]

It's literally the opposite of the truth.

LOL

https://twitter.com/ChrisRBarron/status/793070427442667521
Republican holds pride flag... must be "Far Right™"





Image Source and Article.

The burden is on us as social media consumers to reward the right messages with our attention and do the same for our politicians who intend to bring us together as Americans. It may not be as simple as it sounds, but if we’re able to turn the tide against polarization and bring down some of the heat around big issues, we can finally come together in 2020 and start off 2021 on the right foot.

What this is a serious post?


Ahahahhahaha

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

it's more like some prominent members have run to both ends. meanwhile the bulk of dems (politicians) have moved somewhat left while the bulk of republican politicians have moved further right.

anyway I associate that meme with elon and I know he's just pissed that his girlfriend left him for chelsea manning and that some liberals are calling him out for being a garbage billionaire (like most of the billionaire class)

[Del Tachi]

The idea that Republicans haven’t moved right since 2008 is hilarious.

Well then, on exactly which issues have they moved so far towards the right?

Trump is easily the most protectionist, least interventionist president since Nixon or Eisenhower.  A majority of Republicans now accept gay marriage.   

I think you're falling for the old fallacy of "Trump=bad!" and "conservative=bad!" so therefore "Trump=conservative!" 

Protectionism does not equal liberal; it's the opposite actually, genius. Free trade is and always has been a liberal policy. Again, Pat Buchanan. His paleocon, bats--t crazy vision for the GOP is what Trump realized essentially. Same goes for his isolationist insanity.

As far as your nonsense about "Hurr durr DOMA was a Democrat policy!" Well gee, give me the list of pro-gay Republicans who voted against it then... Oh, that's right! There were none. It was a bipartisan policy explicitly reluctantly signed by Clinton (in an effort to avoid a Constitutional amendment) but mostly pushed by Republicans and right-wing activists and media personalities. Rush Limbaugh used to openly mock every gay man who died from AIDS. How you simp for a party that literally would celebrate your death is completely beyond my comprehension. I guess I'm just not good enough at mental gymnastics for that one.

And don't even get me started on DADT: Celebrated as a huge advance for gay rights at the time! A compromise from Clinton's very vocal initial stance of allowing gays to openly serve, shot down by... You guessed it: Republicans!

Listen to what you're saying, dude...you're acknowledging Clinton signed (and a majority of Democrats in Congress voted for) the "Republican" Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.  Considering where the Democrats are today on LGBT issues, how has there not been a significant move to the left?  Republicans have moved less.  I agree with this interpretation.  What are you doing trying to fight me, brah?  lmao 

You're just defaulting to treating the Democrat Party line as the assumed "median" position, which is the same kind of bias that crops up in DW-NOMINATE (I see you don't have a response for my explanation of why it is a bad metric BTW.)

Somehow you're even more of a dimwit than the completely inconsequential and forgettable Vice President you decided to make your username.

[Senator Incitatus]

If you believe in a binomial political spectrum you are a baby child with brains spilling out of your ears.

[Xing]

The idea that Republicans haven’t moved right since 2008 is hilarious.

Well then, on exactly which issues have they moved so far towards the right?

Trump is easily the most protectionist, least interventionist president since Nixon or Eisenhower.  A majority of Republicans now accept gay marriage.   

I think you're falling for the old fallacy of "Trump=bad!" and "conservative=bad!" so therefore "Trump=conservative!" 

Trump is not a “non-interventionist”, lol. This zombie talking point is getting old. He continued the same foreign policy decisions of previous administrations, and nearly got us tangled up in more messes. And being protectionist =/= liberal. But I didn’t even mention Trump, so your entire conclusion is an odd non-sequitor. Republicans have moved right on rhetoric on issues such as immigration, guns, education, and economic issues, despite their rhetoric of supposedly caring about the working class (though this isn’t a Trump-specific phenomenon and has been decades in the making.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Biden who pulled out of Afghanistan and has all but endedthe drone bombing campaign is objectively less interventionist than Trump.

[Xing]

Biden who pulled out of Afghanistan and has all but endedthe drone bombing campaign is objectively less interventionist than Trump.

Biden is, without question, the most dovish president of my lifetime. Not that it’s saying much.

[Schiff for Senate]

Biden who pulled out of Afghanistan and has all but endedthe drone bombing campaign is objectively less interventionist than Trump.

To be fair to Trump, he genuinely did want to and did try to pull out of Afghanistan. But yeah, it was ultimately Biden who went through with it and took the flak for it.