My thoughts: The Plot itself

[Former President tack50]

Well here is part 2 on my thoughts, which I have forced myself to write. This time dealing with the direct consequences of the plot itself.

And tbh I don't have that much to add. It was a very dumb idea, completely unjustifiable and something that would never ever work and would probably be stopped at one point or another. Like I said on the other thread I've had plenty of fun here in the past and I would want future players to have as much fun as I did back in the day.

In any case, it seems that things are going to eventually go back to normal. I do wonder if the playerbase is big and active enough to sustain itself; but even if it isn't I think that issue can easily be solved with some cuts on the number of offices. While I do not regret the change to the Fifth Constitution, I do think that the small inflation on the number of offices was a negative.

I however want to attack the popular narrative that the people against the coup are "very serious people" or "people with no lives". I suppose I will plead guilty as charged on the first one. Yes this is a LARP that we should not take too seriously. So what? So are so many other things out there. Do people get angry at say, DnD players who take the in-game universe seriously? No, of course not. At the end of the day this is a role-playing game just like that. And yes trolling can be fun; I've enjoyed multiple meme parties. But this was not a good meme even, it was in the ground for a long time.

I also find, for some reason the "no lives" accusation extremely hypocritical. I'll ask the plotters a question: Which is the group with no lives?

a) The people who put a relatively passive amount of effort in to save the game; just voting when prompted
b) The people who wasted lots of hours into an elaborate plot to rig the elections and destroy the game.

I can understand and even empathize with the feeling of being bored at the game (I voted for my opponent for a reason!). But why try to bring down the game with you, putting in so much time and effort? Isn't actively working to destroy the game exactly what the "no lives" crew would do?

I am fully aware that at some point, some day, this board will die out. But I do hope that, when it does, it is not due to an active murder attempt but rather the game itself just dying "of old age". In other words, people just gradually posting less and less until this becomes a dead board and elections are not held anymore.

Like I said, I want people to have fun here even after I am gone and retired. If there is no one next in line, it sucks but then why not just leave the game alone to gradually rot? It takes less time and effort after all!

As for the future, I hope people here can reconstruct. I don't know if reforms are needed and/or of what kind; but something is for sure, I will oppose any and all efforts to kill this game before it's actually its time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

But why try to bring down the game with you, putting in so much time and effort? Isn't actively working to destroy the game exactly what the "no lives" crew would do?

Narcissism? Hubris? Echo Chamber Consensus? Balkanized discords? Misinformation feedback loops? Downright Hatred for the Other side?

Standard Tropes
1. Boredom begets destructive tendencies in some
                 - Action at any price

2. Intensification of animus towards "people in the way of the club"
              - Adam. Windjammer, Myself, Scott, Lumine typically end up on this list eventually. The first two care about the Labor Party and the game as an elections sim, I care about a certain set of principles that restrain power (bc concentrated power is dangerous, who would have guessed. This sentiment is a threat), Lumine is well known for having high standards for ethical behavior and interest in the story line aspects, Scott cares about policy too much for the liking of the "unserious crowd"



3. Missinformation feeds the loop.
                - The AtlasforumIRC waged an extensive misinformation campaign regarding my ties to the Senate Rules and my leadership in that body, the longer I refused to give TNF every single slot.
                 - The are multiple instances of misinformation that led to and then were manifested during this event

4. The exclusive chat room creates a feedback loop
                   - #AtlasforumIRC started as a community channel for the whole forum that over time became dominated by a selective group and that group was the core of the radical movement
                   - Balkanized Discords with echo chamber consensus
                   - In both cases anyone that goes against the hive mind is pressured to conform and certain people are go with the flow types, while are are the bad influences.  
                   - In both cases theirs a patronizing tone of "look at these pathetic idiots playing this stupid game like children".

5. Eventually someone does "some wild talk" and at first it gets tamped down, but at a certain break point, the wild talk becomes strategy, strategy becomes tactics, and then the tactics start to get executed.

To answer your question the answer to both "Why destroy the game" and "why devote so much time and energy to such while railing against 'seriousness" is a combination of elitism derived from both the exclusivity of the chat room involved, a superiority complex and a narrative to enforce conformity.

"KaiserDave is a Chicken", "KaiserDave just wants to pass budgets three times a week", "You don't want to be one of the boring club do you?"

The people who know better are dismissed and put down.

"Yankee bitching about discord again"
"Yankee quoting Burke about balancing of power again"
"Yankee talking about the past again"

I won't even post the despicable things they said about Scott.
The various things they said about you.

"WB can inherit the ashes" - Dengcord 2022   "The Federalists can lord over the ashes" - Oakvale summer 2015

This is a cult like situation built on negative integration.  Its not about internal coherence or making sense, the main thing is preservation of unity behind the schemes, and keeping out reality.

WD asked Truman how how Oakvale tried to overthrow the Gov't, after Truman cited him, it was not answered that I can see.

Crane pointed out that "Yankee would just delete anything that doesn't conform to his narrative", it was never addressed that I can see.

Nobody thought very long about how well their generalized view aligned with their inflated view of what the GM could do when here it was as impactful as the Supreme Court was to them with the injunctions.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

But why try to bring down the game with you, putting in so much time and effort? Isn't actively working to destroy the game exactly what the "no lives" crew would do?

Narcissism? Hubris? Echo Chamber Consensus? Balkanized discords? Misinformation feedback loops? Downright Hatred for the Other side?

Standard Tropes
1. Boredom begets destructive tendencies in some
                 - Action at any price

2. Intensification of animus towards "people in the way of the club"
              - Adam. Windjammer, Myself, Scott, Lumine typically end up on this list eventually. The first two care about the Labor Party and the game as an elections sim, I care about a certain set of principles that restrain power (bc concentrated power is dangerous, who would have guessed. This sentiment is a threat), Lumine is well known for having high standards for ethical behavior and interest in the story line aspects, Scott cares about policy too much for the liking of the "unserious crowd"



3. Missinformation feeds the loop.
                - The AtlasforumIRC waged an extensive misinformation campaign regarding my ties to the Senate Rules and my leadership in that body, the longer I refused to give TNF every single slot.
                 - The are multiple instances of misinformation that led to and then were manifested during this event

4. The exclusive chat room creates a feedback loop
                   - #AtlasforumIRC started as a community channel for the whole forum that over time became dominated by a selective group and that group was the core of the radical movement
                   - Balkanized Discords with echo chamber consensus
                   - In both cases anyone that goes against the hive mind is pressured to conform and certain people are go with the flow types, while are are the bad influences. 
                   - In both cases theirs a patronizing tone of "look at these pathetic idiots playing this stupid game like children".

5. Eventually someone does "some wild talk" and at first it gets tamped down, but at a certain break point, the wild talk becomes strategy, strategy becomes tactics, and then the tactics start to get executed.

To answer your question the answer to both "Why destroy the game" and "why devote so much time and energy to such while railing against 'seriousness" is a combination of elitism derived from both the exclusivity of the chat room involved, a superiority complex and a narrative to enforce conformity.

"KaiserDave is a Chicken", "KaiserDave just wants to pass budgets three times a week", "You don't want to be one of the boring club do you?"

The people who know better are dismissed and put down.

"Yankee bitching about discord again"
"Yankee quoting Burke about balancing of power again"
"Yankee talking about the past again"

I won't even post the despicable things they said about Scott.
The various things they said about you.

"WB can inherit the ashes" - Dengcord 2022   "The Federalists can lord over the ashes" - Oakvale summer 2015

This is a cult like situation built on negative integration.  Its not about internal coherence or making sense, the main thing is preservation of unity behind the schemes, and keeping out reality.

WD asked Truman how how Oakvale tried to overthrow the Gov't, after Truman cited him, it was not answered that I can see.

Crane pointed out that "Yankee would just delete anything that doesn't conform to his narrative", it was never addressed that I can see.

Nobody thought very long about how well their generalized view aligned with their inflated view of what the GM could do when here it was as impactful as the Supreme Court was to them with the injunctions.

You could probably make an Atlasia Conspiracy Starter Pack meme out of this.

[S019]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

[Joseph Cao]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

I mean, if there are inaccuracies we would be happy to hear them pointed out.

[Mr. Reactionary]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

When are you going to appologize for being an active participant in a seditious conspiracy?

[It’s so Joever]

If Labor can start a coup and it’s okay, why shouldn’t I be allowed to in-game create my own in-game paramilitary that occasionally does a little “trolling”?
In all seriousness this goes back to the question of exactly what Atlasia is supposed to be, and that’s going to continue to be a question for as long as it exists. If we genuinely want it to be a more chaotic and unstable in game country, fine, but that needs to be something the MAJORITY of voters agree upon.

To be honest I think this is the best thing that has happened to Atlasia in a long time. Not because the coup was good by any means, but because it finally is going to force everyone to think about the game’s future.

[S019]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

When are you going to appologize for being an active participant in a seditious conspiracy?

How about you apologize for calling me a Nazi first, then we'll talk.

[It’s so Joever]

How about you both are wrong? Now swallow your f**king pride and apologize to the country.

[Former President tack50]

If Labor can start a coup and it’s okay, why shouldn’t I be allowed to in-game create my own in-game paramilitary that occasionally does a little “trolling”?
In all seriousness this goes back to the question of exactly what Atlasia is supposed to be, and that’s going to continue to be a question for as long as it exists. If we genuinely want it to be a more chaotic and unstable in game country, fine, but that needs to be something the MAJORITY of voters agree upon.

To be honest I think this is the best thing that has happened to Atlasia in a long time. Not because the coup was good by any means, but because it finally is going to force everyone to think about the game’s future.

Labor starting a coup was not ok though! And like Insaid there is a balance between trolling and serious gameplay; it's not even particularly hard to achieve said balance

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

Tbf while comparisons to 2015 can be overblown, this is almost a play by play repeat lol. I suppose marginally less bad, but also coming at a lower point.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If Labor can start a coup and it’s okay, why shouldn’t I be allowed to in-game create my own in-game paramilitary that occasionally does a little “trolling”?
In all seriousness this goes back to the question of exactly what Atlasia is supposed to be, and that’s going to continue to be a question for as long as it exists. If we genuinely want it to be a more chaotic and unstable in game country, fine, but that needs to be something the MAJORITY of voters agree upon.

To be honest I think this is the best thing that has happened to Atlasia in a long time. Not because the coup was good by any means, but because it finally is going to force everyone to think about the game’s future.

Labor starting a coup was not ok though! And like Insaid there is a balance between trolling and serious gameplay; it's not even particularly hard to achieve said balance

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

Tbf while comparisons to 2015 can be overblown, this is almost a play by play repeat lol. I suppose marginally less bad, but also coming at a lower point.

You could argue it's worse bc of the election rigging aspect, which is a first since I think 2005.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

You played this game for a month with no rules except what Truman wanted and have repeatedly justified it under it's just a game

Then have the absolute temerity to deny me a passionate (not angry, passionate) response, that extreme hypocrisy does make me angry.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

When are you going to appologize for being an active participant in a seditious conspiracy?

How about you apologize for calling me a Nazi first, then we'll talk.

Take it outside, take it out back, take it into the street but another thread will not be derailed by personal differences. Stick to the topic of the events of the past month.

[Mr. Reactionary]

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals, 7 years later. Tack's response was actually nice and reasonable, but Yankee's comes off as quite angry and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

When are you going to appologize for being an active participant in a seditious conspiracy?

How about you apologize for calling me a Nazi first, then we'll talk.

Take it outside, take it out back, take it into the street but another thread will not be derailed by personal differences. Stick to the topic of the events of the past month.

TBH Im not even sure what hes talking about. The meme was that he was the leader of Belarus, Lukashenko (LukaS019ko) to Truman's Putin.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The people who know better are dismissed and put down.

Thanks S019 for providing a demonstration

Here is how this works:

This is what people mean when they say that people are still overly obsessed with the 2015 radicals

,

Step 1: Downplay the Historical Allegories that would dissuade people from current action.
Step 2: Insert some disparaging descriptive phrase to put down those raising alarm.

7 years later.

Step 3. Emphasize the time difference, as if that changes the facts of what happened then or the facts of what happened now.

but Yankee's comes off as quite angry

Step 4. Insert yet another negative descriptor to further distract from the underlying comparison.

and trying to draw comparisons to different events 7 years ago will never be particularly accurate.

Step 5. Draw a false conclusion about events of which all you know about the first is what you were told, in opposition to someone who lived through it from start to finish, for two years.