Saudi feminist activist sues US contractors over phone hack

[PSOL]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/saudi-womens-rights-activist-says-phone-hack-by-us-contractors-led-arrest-2021-12-09/

Human rights seems to have a limit if it’s related to a U.S. ally.

[dead0man]

They wouldn't have had to use these contractors if Apple put a backdoor on their devices that only govts can use like Obama wanted.

If it was technologically possible to make an impenetrable device where there's no door at all, then how do we apprehend the child pornographer? How do we disrupt a terrorist plot? How do we even do a simple thing like tax enforcement? If government can't get in, then everyone's walking around with a Swiss bank account in their pocket. There has to be some concession to get into that information somewhere.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/saudi-womens-rights-activist-says-phone-hack-by-us-contractors-led-arrest-2021-12-09/

Human rights seems to have a limit if it’s related to a U.S. ally.

As has always been the case, and always will.

[WMS]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/saudi-womens-rights-activist-says-phone-hack-by-us-contractors-led-arrest-2021-12-09/

Human rights seems to have a limit if it’s related to a U.S. ally.

As has always been the case, and always will.

If tankie land can stop the anti-U.S. circle jerk for just a second, maybe you could actually read the article?

It alleged that the surveillance operation run by the three ex-contractors and DarkMatter, a United Arab Emirates cybersecurity company, led to al-Hathloul's arrest by the UAE’s security services.

A 2019 Reuters investigation, cited by the lawsuit, revealed that al-Hathloul was targeted in 2017 by a team of U.S. mercenaries who surveilled dissidents on behalf of the UAE under a program called Project Raven, which categorized her as a national security threat and hacked into her iPhone.

In a separate settlement with U.S. federal prosecutors in September, for hacking charges, the three former U.S. intelligence contractors Marc Baier, Ryan Adams, and Daniel Gericke admitted to conducting surveillance operations on behalf of the UAE, including breaking into mobile devices.

Notice the country other than Saudi Arabia* that gets mentioned a lot? It’s the USA UAE. They’re responsible for this. I am amazed at how the Reuters story was turned into USA-bashing of all things.

*yes they’re horrible and the U.S. needs to detach itself, but that has nothing to do with this story.

[PSOL]

If the United States didn’t want contractors acting on the behalf of Saudi Arabia in suppressing dissenters, it would be illegal.

[WMS]

I believe the word also used in the article is “mercenaries”, and if people want to work on their own for the UAE, I don’t see how that can be legally prohibited. The UAE is technically an ally, after all. If the US mercs had sensitive knowledge or skills that the US government didn’t want to get into the hands of US enemies, they never would’ve been allowed to go freelance.

None of which puts the onus of blame on the U.S. This was one member of Autocracy Inc. looking out for another member of Autocracy Inc.

[PSOL]

I believe the word also used in the article is “mercenaries”, and if people want to work on their own for the UAE, I don’t see how that can be legally prohibited. The UAE is technically an ally, after all. If the US mercs had sensitive knowledge or skills that the US government didn’t want to get into the hands of US enemies, they never would’ve been allowed to go freelance.

None of which puts the onus of blame on the U.S. This was one member of Autocracy Inc. looking out for another member of Autocracy Inc.

Then why allow this behavior and pattern of public-private hirings for Autocracy Inc. to even occur? This is at best look negligent behavior and looking the other way when these officials serve private interests in quashing dissent abroad when it concerns our allies.

[WMS]

I believe the word also used in the article is “mercenaries”, and if people want to work on their own for the UAE, I don’t see how that can be legally prohibited. The UAE is technically an ally, after all. If the US mercs had sensitive knowledge or skills that the US government didn’t want to get into the hands of US enemies, they never would’ve been allowed to go freelance.

None of which puts the onus of blame on the U.S. This was one member of Autocracy Inc. looking out for another member of Autocracy Inc.

Then why allow this behavior and pattern of public-private hirings for Autocracy Inc. to even occur?

The U.S. really shouldn’t be allowing it, but I don’t know if we can keep all such trios of mercenaries from hiring out independently. Might be worth a check.

Edit: It’s a murky situation both domestically and internationally. When is a mercenary technically a mercenary, as opposed to a freelancer, or an independent contractor, or a legally recognized hire of a national government, etc.? There are different laws applicable to different situations, and I would have to defer to one of the lawyers on the forum.

[PSOL]

I believe the word also used in the article is “mercenaries”, and if people want to work on their own for the UAE, I don’t see how that can be legally prohibited. The UAE is technically an ally, after all. If the US mercs had sensitive knowledge or skills that the US government didn’t want to get into the hands of US enemies, they never would’ve been allowed to go freelance.

None of which puts the onus of blame on the U.S. This was one member of Autocracy Inc. looking out for another member of Autocracy Inc.

Then why allow this behavior and pattern of public-private hirings for Autocracy Inc. to even occur?

The U.S. really shouldn’t be allowing it, but I don’t know if we can keep all such trios of mercenaries from hiring out independently. Might be worth a check.

Word gets around of the work done in the private sector and, unless explicitly illegal, I’m sure they talk about these opportunities with other US officials and go back to contracting with the experience added to their CV.

The US government knows about these things, but does not do anything about it because it’s a lucrative venture to the Military-Industrial Complex on the service of a US ally. This is something the US government knows will be used against human rights defenders, but looks the other way still and continues programs to aide and abet the flourishing of such work through rehirings and contracting and subsidies to the Saudis and these companies.

In other words, Autocracy Inc. is a well supported venture by the US government, what with the inseparable ties they have had since the beginning.

[WMS]

I answered some of your questions above in my edit.

If the US trio was hired by the DarkMatter company and the UAE government didn’t object, technically this entire matter was on the level of people taking jobs in other countries. DarkMatter seems to quietly work with the Emirati government so it’s more like an Emirati government contractor hiring overseas talent. Which is bound by the rules governments have on such matters. Unless there is a specific restriction placed on working for certain countries, I’m not sure this would be illegal per se. They weren’t overtly being used to engage in armed conflict, which triggers other conditions.

Without more details on how the trio was hired I can’t make a determination of how or if there was any U.S. involvement in their hiring. I would suspect not based on it being just three guys: small beer for this sort of thing. Plus they already came to a settlement in a U.S. court admitting guilt on at least part of the charges: if the U.S. government was really involved they’d probably be covered from that.

In this particular case it doesn’t look like there was any U.S. government involvement whatsoever. Other governments are quite capable of acting independently of the U.S. - the UAE has been doing quite a lot of it in recent years. If anything I suspect the UAE wouldn’t cooperate in such a matter with Saudi Arabia today, not because of any concern for human rights, but because relations between them and the Saudis are less than perfectly cordial.

The Wagner Group in the Central African Republic this is not.