How has your opinion in the Democratic Party changed over the summer

[OSR stands with Israel]

Congressional democrats refuse to call these people out and defend people like Kate Brown , Ted Wheeler , and Lori Lightfoot.

To say that’s it’s only twitter personalities who are refusing to call these rioters out is just not true

I have not seen a single Democrat get asked about the riots and violence, and refuse to condemn them.

If you want every Democrat to go give a speech like Biden did, that's simply not going to happen.  Our party leader gave a speech, and that got all the attention.  We don't need Tom Carper to go give the same speech just to let people know he's on the same page.  I'm sure if someone did an interview with Carper, or any other random congressional Democrat, and asked him if he agrees with Biden's condemnation of riots and violence, he would say yes.  Every Democrat who has been asked this question has said yes.

If you want Democrats to start issuing intra-party condemnations, like for Tom Carper (D-DE) to go out and condemn Kate Brown (D-OR) that's simply not going to happen.  That wouldn't happen in either party, that's just not the way politics works.  I'm sure Democratic governors behind the scenes are telling Kate Brown to get her f--king act together.  But they're not gonna go give a public speech ragging on her.

It seems like you are setting this absurdly high bar for you to believe something that in other circumstances you would just believe by default.  There's no reason to not believe that Democrats agree with Biden's extremely normal and popular opinion.  You simply don't want to believe it, because living in an alternate reality where we're all antifa-lovers lets you vote Republican with a clean-ish conscience, which is ultimately your goal in this election cycle.

Just endorse Trump and stop kidding yourself.  He's your team's guy, and when he goes patting Kyle Rittenhouse on the back you'll make excuses for it.

I want Nancy Pelosi to condemn them and I don’t want the bs that Trump is at fault fully for what’s happening in Portland which is beyond ridiculous. I want all these mayors and governors to make it clear that antifa is terrible and these rioters are criminals and people who riot will be arrested but instead no they act like the protests going on are still peaceful.


Also no I never had a positive opinion of the Democratic Party and I never wanted them to take control of the senate either or win most of the downballot races . I wanted Trump to lose but I never wanted the gop to lose with him .

Lastly you were the same person who said in 2016 you would have voted for Bernie over Kasich if they were the nominees because your afraid of what congressional and other downballot republicans would do so please don’t act like you aren’t hackish while  In the same exact scenario just with reversed parties I am not supporting  trump.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I want Nancy Pelosi to condemn them and I don’t want the bs that Trump is at fault fully for what’s happening in Portland which is beyond ridiculous. I want all these mayors and governors to make it clear that antifa is terrible and these rioters are criminals and people who riot will be arrested but instead no they act like the protests going on are still peaceful.


Also no I never had a positive opinion of the Democratic Party and I never wanted them to take control of the senate either or win most of the downballot races . I wanted Trump to lose but I never wanted the gop to lose with him .

Lastly you were the same person who said in 2016 you would have voted for Bernie over Kasich if they were the nominees because your afraid of what congressional and other downballot republicans would do so please don’t act like you aren’t hackish while  In the same exact scenario just with reversed parties I am not supporting  trump.

None of this has anything to do with Congress!  This is mainly on a handful of loser city councilmembers with some blame on the shoulders of a mayor and a governor.  Why would we need to hear from Pelosi?  The only congresspeople who need to speak out are maybe the ones who represent Portland, although even they have very little to do with this.

Whether Trump is president, or Biden is president, the result will be the same.  POTUS, like Congress, has virtually nothing to do with the internal management of a city.  Contrast this with Congress, where a partisan-controlled Congress needs a same-party president to rubber-stamp their legislation.  It's not a downballot thing.  It's what does the president have the power to do?  Voting for a Democrat over a Republican because of extremists in Congress makes sense because the president has control over whether or not extreme Congressional legislation actually gets passed (see the Obamacare repeal that would have passed if not for McCain -- what a nightmare with COVID!).  Voting for Trump over Biden because of street violence in Portland makes no sense because the president has no control over that situation.  Know how you can tell?  Because Trump is president right now and not doing anything except complain about it on TV!

Nobody's asking you to have a positive opinion of the Democratic Party.  You're a Republican.  You're not gonna like most of what we do.  Nor will you like most of our candidates.  But don't go around acting like this violence in Portland is reflective of the party -- this is a hyperlocal issue that lies on the shoulders of a few local officials, most of whom are only very loosely affiliated with the party in the first place.  And the violence has been roundly condemned by the leading voices in the party.

And I certainly hope you won't use this violence down the road to justify a vote for Trump.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I want Nancy Pelosi to condemn them and I don’t want the bs that Trump is at fault fully for what’s happening in Portland which is beyond ridiculous. I want all these mayors and governors to make it clear that antifa is terrible and these rioters are criminals and people who riot will be arrested but instead no they act like the protests going on are still peaceful.


Also no I never had a positive opinion of the Democratic Party and I never wanted them to take control of the senate either or win most of the downballot races . I wanted Trump to lose but I never wanted the gop to lose with him .

Lastly you were the same person who said in 2016 you would have voted for Bernie over Kasich if they were the nominees because your afraid of what congressional and other downballot republicans would do so please don’t act like you aren’t hackish while  In the same exact scenario just with reversed parties I am not supporting  trump.

None of this has anything to do with Congress!  This is mainly on a handful of loser city councilmembers with some blame on the shoulders of a mayor and a governor.  Why would we need to hear from Pelosi?  The only congresspeople who need to speak out are maybe the ones who represent Portland, although even they have very little to do with this.

Whether Trump is president, or Biden is president, the result will be the same.  POTUS, like Congress, has virtually nothing to do with the internal management of a city.  Contrast this with Congress, where a partisan-controlled Congress needs a same-party president to rubber-stamp their legislation.  It's not a downballot thing.  It's what does the president have the power to do?  Voting for a Democrat over a Republican because of extremists in Congress makes sense because the president has control over whether or not extreme Congressional legislation actually gets passed (see the Obamacare repeal that would have passed if not for McCain -- what a nightmare with COVID!).  Voting for Trump over Biden because of street violence in Portland makes no sense because the president has no control over that situation.  Know how you can tell?  Because Trump is president right now and not doing anything except complain about it on TV!

Nobody's asking you to have a positive opinion of the Democratic Party.  You're a Republican.  You're not gonna like most of what we do.  Nor will you like most of our candidates.  But don't go around acting like this violence in Portland is reflective of the party -- this is a hyperlocal issue that lies on the shoulders of a few local officials, most of whom are only very loosely affiliated with the party in the first place.  And the violence has been roundly condemned by the leading voices in the party.

And I certainly hope you won't use this violence down the road to justify a vote for Trump.

I never said I’m gonna vote for trump , I said I think these democratic governors and big city mayors should be thrown out along with many democratic house members making excuses for this . In an earlier post I literally even said my preferred outcome would be for Trump to lose while all these democratic governors , mayors and the dem house get voted out as well .

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I stated earlier, the Melania and  Ivanka speeches reminds me of Parkland when the KGB took out the 4 Civil Rights leaders and Kushner blasted Lebron for boycotting the NBA and he didn't understand the BLM and Russia didn't understand it in 1960's

Also, Lee and Robert Oswald were distant cousins of Robert E Lee who was the Confederate General, the Confederate Monuments were modeled after and the Confederate flag was modeled after, when Earl Warren got rid of Jim Crow, after Brown v Board of ED. Dukes of Hazzard with the Confederate Flag was during the Reagan Admin.

That's why Harris criticism of Biden on segregation and Anita is small compared to the Southern Strategy of the Nixon and Reagan

Make America Great Again was plagerized by Trump, from the 1980 slogan of Ronald Reagan, they both have the Southern Strategy

[SWE]

It would have gone up if they were as cool as the blue avatars in this thread seem to think

[GeneralMacArthur]

I never said I’m gonna vote for trump , I said I think these democratic governors and big city mayors should be thrown out along with many democratic house members making excuses for this . In an earlier post I literally even said my preferred outcome would be for Trump to lose while all these democratic governors , mayors and the dem house get voted out as well .

Again, please tell me which House members are making excuses for this.  Is it anyone other than the idiot brigade of AOC/Omar/Tlaib?

I disagree with the consensus regarding how fortunate the party is that Joe Biden won the nomination. They are fortunate that the nominee isn't Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but the party would be better off with someone with more vitality and forcefulness.

I'm also in some agreement with SWE's post above. We have a nominee who is as afraid of telling off the Democratic mayors and DAs who have enabled rioters as he is of talking about a $15 minimum wage or legalizing marijuana. His staffers contribute to bail relief funds with one hand while taking phone calls from the Lincoln Project with the other.

This whole "bail relief fund" thing has been spun way out of proportion and turned into a phony right-wing talking point.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-staffers-bailout-fund/

The actual truth is that a couple of the thousands of staffers working for Biden made $50-100 contributions to a very well-known and reputable charity and posted about it on social media.  That's it.  That's all you're complaining about.

Also, Biden seemed pretty full of vitality and forcefulness to me when he gave his speech against rioting the other day.  And lord knows Biden isn't afraid to stand his ground and have forceful conviction in the positions he believes in, even if they're not popular -- that was literally the story of the primary.

I really don't think your complaints about the guy hold up with reality.  And I don't know what any of this has to do with your opinion of the Democratic Party.  Yeah, some people wanted Bernie Sanders, and some people support the rioters and anarchists.  That's the wing.  The crazy wing of your party is Roy Moore types who think LGBT should get the death penalty and wave confederate flags around.  Let's not judge parties by their crazy wings.

[DC Al Fine]

Worsened. The primary appeal of the Democrats to me this election cycle was the  stability offered versus a Trump-led Republican Party. Their collective response to the rioting has burned all that credibility away. A plague on both their houses.

[lfromnj]

I never said I’m gonna vote for trump , I said I think these democratic governors and big city mayors should be thrown out along with many democratic house members making excuses for this . In an earlier post I literally even said my preferred outcome would be for Trump to lose while all these democratic governors , mayors and the dem house get voted out as well .

Again, please tell me which House members are making excuses for this.  Is it anyone other than the idiot brigade of AOC/Omar/Tlaib?

I disagree with the consensus regarding how fortunate the party is that Joe Biden won the nomination. They are fortunate that the nominee isn't Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but the party would be better off with someone with more vitality and forcefulness.

I'm also in some agreement with SWE's post above. We have a nominee who is as afraid of telling off the Democratic mayors and DAs who have enabled rioters as he is of talking about a $15 minimum wage or legalizing marijuana. His staffers contribute to bail relief funds with one hand while taking phone calls from the Lincoln Project with the other.

This whole "bail relief fund" thing has been spun way out of proportion and turned into a phony right-wing talking point.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-staffers-bailout-fund/

The actual truth is that a couple of the thousands of staffers working for Biden made $50-100 contributions to a very well-known and reputable charity and posted about it on social media.  That's it.  That's all you're complaining about.

Also, Biden seemed pretty full of vitality and forcefulness to me when he gave his speech against rioting the other day.  And lord knows Biden isn't afraid to stand his ground and have forceful conviction in the positions he believes in, even if they're not popular -- that was literally the story of the primary.

I really don't think your complaints about the guy hold up with reality.  And I don't know what any of this has to do with your opinion of the Democratic Party.  Yeah, some people wanted Bernie Sanders, and some people support the rioters and anarchists.  That's the wing.  The crazy wing of your party is Roy Moore types who think LGBT should get the death penalty and wave confederate flags around.  Let's not judge parties by their crazy wings.

There is literally a tweet by Kamala Harris posting that tweet in June? Or are people not allowed to complain about the actions from a VP nominee of a 78 year old candidate ? I never complained about the bail fund fwiw because I do believe they are not convicted so they have the right to bail and whichever source it comes from.

[GeneralMacArthur]

This may seem like splitting hairs but Kamala Harris was not a part of the Biden campaign when she posted that tweet promoting the Minnesota Freedom Fund.

But more to the point, there's nothing wrong with donating to the Minnesota Freedom Fund.  In the early days of the protests, they were overwhelmingly normal, peaceful people coming out of their homes to demand justice peacefully.  Most of those people have since gone home and a lot of what's left is the die-hard anarchist/communist white rioters.  But that's not what the protests originally were, in particular that's not who Kamala was trying to help by promoting the fund.   A lot of innocent, peaceful people got booked in the early days of the protests.  And the Minnesota Freedom Fund's main purpose is to help people who are too poor to afford bail, since cash bail is a dumb and discriminatory system.  It's not to help violent people.  It's just "if you're a poor person, you shouldn't be afraid to protest because you might get booked and not be able to afford bail."

[Del Tachi]

Somehow gotten worse.  I was open to voting for Biden as recently as January/February this year, but the politicization of COVID + unscientific fetishization with masks, social distancing and lockdowns by liberal media/politicians has made me a de facto Trumpist.

[lfromnj]

This may seem like splitting hairs but Kamala Harris was not a part of the Biden campaign when she posted that tweet promoting the Minnesota Freedom Fund.

But more to the point, there's nothing wrong with donating to the Minnesota Freedom Fund.  In the early days of the protests, they were overwhelmingly normal, peaceful people coming out of their homes to demand justice peacefully.  Most of those people have since gone home and a lot of what's left is the die-hard anarchist/communist white rioters.  But that's not what the protests originally were, in particular that's not who Kamala was trying to help by promoting the fund.   A lot of innocent, peaceful people got booked in the early days of the protests.  And the Minnesota Freedom Fund's main purpose is to help people who are too poor to afford bail, since cash bail is a dumb and discriminatory system.  It's not to help violent people.  It's just "if you're a poor person, you shouldn't be afraid to protest because you might get booked and not be able to afford bail."

I never said the Freedom fund was a bad idea(read above)
I just said its clear the Biden campaign is associated with it after he chose to pick someone who promoted it as his VP nominee.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I never said the Freedom fund was a bad idea(read above)
I just said its clear the Biden campaign is associated with it after he chose to pick someone who promoted it as his VP nominee.

Kamala Harris also promoted M4A and Biden clearly isn't supporting that.

Harris isn't on the ticket to set policy.  Her policies are all 100% void now that she's accepted the VP nomination.  The policies of the ticket are those espoused by Joe Biden.

[buritobr]

In few words: the opinion of the ones who already disliked the Democratic Party has gone down

[YE]

The rioters haven't changed my opinion much either way in a serious manner because the issue is deeper than simply "X mayor was good/bad" and it's not something federal level Democrats have any serious ability to control.

[Velasco]

Unchanged

[WD]

Unchanged. I’ve always had a decent opinion of them, either way my opinion of them is eons higher than that of the GOP.

[7,052,770]

Increased, as unlike 4 years ago, we've all done a pretty good job of putting aside our differences and rallying around our nominee.

[Suburbia]

For me it has gone down massively as democratic governors and mayors have made it clear they don’t care about law and order

Please don't stereotype the Democratic Party as these far-left morons rioting in the streets and their municipal-level enablers.

I live in Seattle, which is basically Portland's big brother, and the only reason we're not twice as bad as Portland is because of Mayor Jenny Durkan, the lone mainstream sensible Democrat in this city.  If not for her steadfast defense of sanity, which has earned her the enmity of the extremists in this city and set her at war with the extremist city council, CHAZ would still exist and the whole city would be in flames.

Ironically, Jenny Durkan is the one who declared CHAZ a "summer of love", back when it was just a replacement for the Cap Hill Block Party and hadn't gone to seed yet.  Back then it was an accurate statement.  But I know you conservatives love to use that quote as though she was naive or stupid for saying it.

The only reason we keep having these aggressive protests in Seattle at all is because there's a group of around 100-150 anarchists and communists, none of whom are Democrats, who keep f**king stuff up and the SPD isn't allowed to do anything about it.  Why can't SPD do anything about it?  Because the city council has a veto-proof majority over Durkan, preventing her from unleashing them.  God knows she'd love to.  Furthermore, we elected a pair of idiot do-gooders named Pete Holmes and Dan Satterberg as our prosecuting attorneys, and they refuse to prosecute the rioters, so even when SPD arrests them, they're back on the street the next day.  There's no way to win.  And that's not on the Democratic Party, or our Democratic Mayor.  That's on Holmes, Satterberg, Sawant, and the rest of the city council.

This is the problem with Trump (and you) blaming this problem on the Democratic Party and "Democratic Mayors."  At the end of the day, local politics is a lot more complicated than that and does not translate to the national level.  Seattle has been going through a phase over the last five years where extremist activists have been grabbing more and more control over this city by essentially lying their way into office.  Most of our city councilmembers promised to expand SPD when they ran for office, and now they've turned 180.  It's very frustrating to watch people continually get hoodwinked, but at the end of the day most people simply don't pay that much attention to local politics, meaning activists and extremists, who are by far the most motivated, can control the narrative and political contours.

I don't know much about Portland but I'd imagine it's much the same story.  You have a bunch of really loud, really active extremists, and then 90% of the city is normal folks who don't pay much attention to politics.  The extremists control the narrative and lie their way into office, and it ends with something like this.  This is just the way local politics works all too often, and it won't change until people start paying attention to their local races.

Again, nothing to do with the Democratic Party.  The people running Seattle, except for Durkan, are not Democrats.  They are far, far outside the mainstream of the party and are fiercely opposed by the majority of Democrats in this city.

Then run primary challenges against them.

They are seen as the face of the Democratic Party.

[Mr. Smith]

No change.

They did exactly as expected.

The movable figures are Trump and the GOP, and they've somehow gotten worse.

[Sir Mohamed]

- snip -

Then run primary challenges against them.

They are seen as the face of the Democratic Party.

If they seem to be the face for some (like you), it's mainly because everything they say or do is totally overblown my the media. Just for clarification: I like AOC, but I'm not a huge fan of Omar and Tlaib. I don't care whether they're Muslim like me or not. I don't support a number of their positions, but the press is making a bigger deal of their actions as they actually are. 2 or 3 reps hardly have that much influence in policy or statements the party is making. They're not the face of the Democratic Party by any means. If anyone, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are the leaders of the party. Not to forget Biden ran as a moderate in the primary the whole time and won the nomination as such. Which other Dems of rank and file are radical? Pelosi? Schumer? Perez? Whitmer? Cuomo? Newsom? All these are much more influential than Tlaib or Omar. Or even AOC (most her support comes from a faction of the base).

The party is a big tent that goes from social democracy to centrism, and I consider this a healthy thing. To be a national force, we need different candidates running on vastly different territory. We're united on some core principals and mainly differ in how to achieve certain goals rather than the goals themselves. And to come back to the original point, leading Dems have condemned the violence that has taken place in certain places. The responsible people are not even Dems or associated with the party. And no matter how many times Mr. Trump and his enablers repeat it, it's not true our nominees for prez and VP are somehow puppets or useful idiots to a so called radical left. The "radical left" isn't even a thing within Dem ranks. Not even Bernie Sanders is close to being a radical, neither is AOC. Social democracy or democratic socialism isn't "radical left".

If anyone, Trump needs to condemn violence that comes from his supporters. These people deliberately act as Trump supporters. The Portland rioters didn't carry Biden or Sanders flags. Like Biden said, Trump actually likes more violence from the left side of the political spectrum because he thinks it helps him politically. Could you imagine the opposite for Biden?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I want Nancy Pelosi to condemn them and I don’t want the bs that Trump is at fault fully for what’s happening in Portland which is beyond ridiculous. I want all these mayors and governors to make it clear that antifa is terrible and these rioters are criminals and people who riot will be arrested but instead no they act like the protests going on are still peaceful.

Okay, I have a lot of respect for you, but this is a terrible, terrible take. The person most at fault for racial tensions in America today is Donald Trump. The person most at fault for not working with Pelosi to address police reform is Donald Trump. The person most at fault for making things violent and destructive in Portland is Donald Trump. It's his fault.

What exactly can Wheeler and Brown do differently? The majority of people at the protests are there peacefully. You can't arrest them for unlawful conduct. Within the crowd are random, lone-wolf white supremacists and members of Antifa who cause chaos unpredictably. You can try and arrest them but you can't get them all. This is, of course, compounded by the impossibility of trusting the Portland Police Department to fairly enforce the law since it's full of trigger-happy bigots.

Kate Brown condemned violence at the protests and is working on police reform. How is she the problem?

[OSR stands with Israel]

I want Nancy Pelosi to condemn them and I don’t want the bs that Trump is at fault fully for what’s happening in Portland which is beyond ridiculous. I want all these mayors and governors to make it clear that antifa is terrible and these rioters are criminals and people who riot will be arrested but instead no they act like the protests going on are still peaceful.

Okay, I have a lot of respect for you, but this is a terrible, terrible take. The person most at fault for racial tensions in America today is Donald Trump. The person most at fault for not working with Pelosi to address police reform is Donald Trump. The person most at fault for making things violent and destructive in Portland is Donald Trump. It's his fault.

What exactly can Wheeler and Brown do differently? The majority of people at the protests are there peacefully. You can't arrest them for unlawful conduct. Within the crowd are random, lone-wolf white supremacists and members of Antifa who cause chaos unpredictably. You can try and arrest them but you can't get them all. This is, of course, compounded by the impossibility of trusting the Portland Police Department to fairly enforce the law since it's full of trigger-happy bigots.

Kate Brown condemned violence at the protests and is working on police reform. How is she the problem?

Rioting has gone on for months in Portland and Kate Brown should have sent in the national guard to stop it. Downtown Portland at night has become unsafe due to the rioting, and I know this because my friends and I were told not to go to downtown Portland by our parents cause of how unsafe it has become.

One of the main jobs of public officials is to keep us safe , and Kate Brown and Ted Wheeler have failed massively at this. What has happened to downtown Portland saddens me a lot and I will never forgive Kate Brown and Ted Wheeler for this and they should be called out at least indirectly by the Dem leadership(they dont need to mention them by name but say the leadership in Oregon and Portland needs to get its act together). Like before my most disliked Democrats in the country were Bernie, Warren, and De Blasio but now its Brown and Wheeler.

As for racial issues as a whole, yes Trump has done a terrible job on this but Trump is not the only person who has the power to effect change. Both the Republican and Democratic leadership in the house and senate should pass Tim Scott's bill and pass it by a veto proof majority to force Trump to sign the bill or have his veto be overriden.

[lfromnj]

Isn't the main problem in Portland the activist DA who is reluctant to charge anyone?

[beaver2.0]

I wish more high-profile Democrats would come out and condemn the rioters in these protests and at the same time I wish Democrats would put more effort into criminal justice and police reform.

And having Joe Biden as the candidate for President isn't great.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I stated earlier, my views are very clear, where it stands with Lee Harvey Oswald, Robeert Oswald, Robert E Lee, Confederate Monuments in Robert E Lee's honor and the Southern Strategy by Ronald Reagan and Trump, the most polarizing Rs in history; however, Joe Kennedy and Obama were the two persons that motivated me to donate. Since, Covid hit, I have stopped political donations, but boycott donations since Markey's defeat of Joe Kennedy.