Anyone else seriously worried about COVID restrictions?

[RINO Tom]

Yes, though I'm most worried about future mutations that make vaccines less effective. Even if vaccines can be "updated" very quickly, all vaccinations would have to start all over again. That's why we must stop the spread of the virus as soon as possible.

Sorry chief, not possible.

You can only slow it down, but that's it. The corona express is up and going, and has made enough stops to spread its genetic material virtually almost everywhere.

Stopping it is not up for debate.

Exactly.  If anyone is willing to live in "semi-lockdown" mode until COVID is stopped, he or she better kiss real life goodbye, unfortunately.

EDIT: In the meantime, more and more of us each week will simply go back to hanging out with our friends and seeing our parents and traveling, with fewer and fewer people each week accusing us of being de facto virus-spreading murderers.

[Farmlands]

I'm getting really frustrated at every reopening of things here in Portugal always getting pushed back further and further. If it isn't possible to see your friends face-to-face, it helps to be able to head to the gym, or have a jog outside the arbitrary perimeter from your house. Alas, a few more weeks until that, yet again.

[Omega21]

Yes, though I'm most worried about future mutations that make vaccines less effective. Even if vaccines can be "updated" very quickly, all vaccinations would have to start all over again. That's why we must stop the spread of the virus as soon as possible.

Sorry chief, not possible.

You can only slow it down, but that's it. The corona express is up and going, and has made enough stops to spread its genetic material virtually almost everywhere.

Stopping it is not up for debate.

Exactly.  If anyone is willing to live in "semi-lockdown" mode until COVID is stopped, he or she better kiss real life goodbye, unfortunately.

EDIT: In the meantime, more and more of us each week will simply go back to hanging out with our friends and seeing our parents and traveling, with fewer and fewer people each week accusing us of being de facto virus-spreading murderers.

Peak Covid stupidity was a German health expert saying something along the lines of: the Summer could be brutal because the old and weak will be vaccinated and as a result, people will start living normally again and we will have a massive number of infections within the younger population.

I simply cannot understand people like this. Young people don't get hospitalized, and we also don't die, so Covid is at worst a moderate flu for 999,999 out of 1,000,000 healthy young adults and children.

Likewise, I'm also very concerned for the future of the West when I see the number of people who would literally cheer on lockdowns well into 2022...

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Societies will almost certainly have to come to terms with coronavirus being around for a long time as an endemic disease.

When they do, the actionable fear will shift from new mutations to new infectious diseases being spread across the world, and that is where one should expect major, long-term policy changes to be proposed and enacted. The political impetus for freer trade and movements will be met with the fear of another COVID-19 and a previously unconsidered externality will be factored into the political decision making process for deciding whether it's worthwhile. I expect protectionists will campaign particularly hard against their countries' trading and immigration affairs when it comes to nations in which wildlife markets are commonplace.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Once everyone is vaccinated, I think we will slowly see life return to normal. Nobody likes lockdowns, I for one hate them, but sometimes they are a necessary step to ensuring we contain the virus and don’t overflow the hospitals. I do hope that out of this though, people will generally be more sanitary overall.  I do hope though that things like keeping 6ft apart and mask wearing aren’t normalized forever though since they cause inconveniences in day to day life.

[RINO Tom]

Once everyone is vaccinated, I think we will slowly see life return to normal. Nobody likes lockdowns, I for one hate them, but sometimes they are a necessary step to ensuring we contain the virus and don’t overflow the hospitals. I do hope that out of this though, people will generally be more sanitary overall.  I do hope though that things like keeping 6ft apart and mask wearing aren’t normalized forever though since they cause inconveniences in day to day life.

And, as a mirror to this sentiment, almost nobody opposes lockdowns if hospitals are actually reaching dangerous levels of occupancy.  However, when cases are plummeting, hospitalizations are plummeting faster and the only real fear remaining is hysteria about it getting worse again because we "let our guard down," it's really hard to continue to justify shattering people's livelihoods, continuing to let mental health side effects be a non-concern and generally giving up on what life should be.  If an area is in bad shape, you need to lock it down.  If it's not, you can't babysit everyone alive from giving each other a disease that they're personally comfortable with getting and taking the risks of.  It's just an unsustainable precedent.

[Alcibiades]

Yes, I am seriously worried about COVID restrictions.

I'm especially concerned that public opinion on reopening won't move even after most of the vulnerable have been vaccinated. I also worry that it won't be long before we are asked to do all of this again.

Indeed. My worry is that people will continue to freak out about high case rates in young, low-risk, unvaccinated demographics even if deaths have been all but eliminated.

[jamestroll]

 I was very lucky that past June, Virginia has largely stayed open. It bucked most blue states and did not institute severe restrictions even during the height of the winter surge with a consequence of Virginia having more infections than most blue states at this point. But I am fine with that. We can not keep the economy shut down forever.

Plus there is a political point. What is the point of risking MORE elections and MORE states over demands from the online left?

The first thing new GOP governors would do in January 2022 and January 2023 is reopen everything anyway.

I am afraid a precedent may be set every year to lockdown during flu season. There is already speculation that the next flu season will be quite deadly.

https://www.livescience.com/offseason-flu-respiratory-infections.html

The next point I have mixed feelings on. I also feel like the online left demanding endless shutdowns is also a way to try to end the consumerism economy of the United States and institute a universal basic income. Especially the latter will likely be necessary eventually . But that seems more like a 2040s issue rather than a 2020s issue.

[jamestroll]

It is literally always the same people who never have to leave their homes are the same people who are the most scared of the virus and want endless lockdowns.

[KaiserDave]

Not even a massive extrovert but I don't enjoy seeing people suffer (sane, normal)

[Kingpoleon]

Pretty much no one actually quotes CFRs anymore because it's well known that the vast majority of cases are mild and never get confirmed.  Please quote from a relevant study focused on IFRs.

And, of course, every death is tragic.  But, I think we will wind up losing more from the effects of social distancing, in the long run, than we will save from the marginal benefit of social distancing.  And, regardless, I don't believe that it is "utilitarian" to say that everyone should not have to give up a year of their lives.  If that's your argument, then we should have been doing this every year for the flu, because, after all, some people die of the flu.

Yeah, I want a response to this:

Pretty much no one actually quotes CFRs anymore because it's well known that the vast majority of cases are mild and never get confirmed.  Please quote from a relevant study focused on IFRs.

And, of course, every death is tragic.  But, I think we will wind up losing more from the effects of social distancing, in the long run, than we will save from the marginal benefit of social distancing.  And, regardless, I don't believe that it is "utilitarian" to say that everyone should not have to give up a year of their lives.  If that's your argument, then we should have been doing this every year for the flu, because, after all, some people die of the flu.

That is not “well known,” and it implies that people who are tested for COVID are less likely than those who were not to have COVID.

Very well. Let us measure the effects versus the flu. In 2019, 24,000 people died from the flu. In the past year, 480,000 Americans died from COVID that we know of. Since we now know that masks are 95-99% effective, and social distancing is seriously effective, we KNOW that most infections/deaths resulted from people not taking proper steps to keep from getting it.


“We used a mathematical model to investigate the effectiveness of social distancing interventions in a mid-sized city. Interventions reduced contacts of adults >60 years of age, adults 20–59 years of age, and children <19 years of age for 6 weeks. Our results suggest interventions started earlier in the epidemic delay the epidemic curve and interventions started later flatten the epidemic curve. We noted that, while social distancing interventions were in place, most new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths were averted, even with modest reductions in contact among adults. However, when interventions ended, the epidemic rebounded.”
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1093_article


I also recommend reading this. Taleb is a pretty conservative academic and a VERY strict empiricist.

[morgieb]

What I am really worried about is how certain states in Australia (and New Zealand) have headf**ked themselves into believing that one case is the equivalent of a epidemic. It's gonna mean that it'll be a very long time before I can feel truly comfortable doing everything without the fear of having to go into lockdown/quarantine again.

[Samof94]

What I am really worried about is how certain states in Australia (and New Zealand) have headf**ked themselves into believing that one case is the equivalent of a epidemic. It's gonna mean that it'll be a very long time before I can feel truly comfortable doing everything without the fear of having to go into lockdown/quarantine again.

That will likely change once vaccines are added to the equation and other countries heal.

[DabbingSanta]

Bumping this.  Six months later and nothing has changed.  Ontario is 83% fully vaccinated yet masks are still mandated, businesses still have restrictions, and life has not returned to normal.  I spent some time in the States this month and things are totally normal there.  South Dakota, normal.  Nebraska, normal.  Missouri, normal.  I didn't wear a mask once and everything was fine.  What's the deal?

[ElectionsGuy]

This is increasingly defining my politics and values as a person. Anybody who's not seriously concerned about this, or much worse cheers it on, is not somebody who I can align myself with politically, and I won't vote for anybody who supports any of the draconian government mandates. That includes neocons like Kinzinger and a few people who call themselves libertarians (like Sarwark, former chair) who would rather talk about and actually believe that Jan 6 was a bigger threat to people's liberty than the government closing businesses or telling people they have to get a vaccine to go to a grocery store. It's so beyond irrational to me and a nasty perversion of priorities. When Glenn Greenwald has a better take about this stuff than libertarians who used to run the party something is deeply wrong.

With that said, I'm not personally concerned in my personal life. Wisconsin can't go back to mask mandates and lockdowns, and I'm not wearing a mask anymore period, and the majority of people aren't either. I'm just deeply concerned about the country as a whole and places where people can't escape from it (like NYC), and even more so internationally where places like Australia have embraced complete totalitarianism.

[Calthrina950]

This is increasingly defining my politics and values as a person. Anybody who's not seriously concerned about this, or much worse cheers it on, is not somebody who I can align myself with politically, and I won't vote for anybody who supports any of the draconian government mandates. That includes neocons like Kinzinger and a few people who call themselves libertarians (like Sarwark, former chair) who would rather talk about and actually believe that Jan 6 was a bigger threat to people's liberty than the government closing businesses or telling people they have to get a vaccine to go to a grocery store. It's so beyond irrational to me and a nasty perversion of priorities. When Glenn Greenwald has a better take about this stuff than libertarians who used to run the party something is deeply wrong.

With that said, I'm not personally concerned in my personal life. Wisconsin can't go back to mask mandates and lockdowns, and I'm not wearing a mask anymore period, and the majority of people aren't either. I'm just deeply concerned about the country as a whole and places where people can't escape from it (like NYC), and even more so internationally where places like Australia have embraced complete totalitarianism.

Do you think restrictions are still going to be a part of life a year from now? And how are they going to affect the midterms?

[ElectionsGuy]

This is increasingly defining my politics and values as a person. Anybody who's not seriously concerned about this, or much worse cheers it on, is not somebody who I can align myself with politically, and I won't vote for anybody who supports any of the draconian government mandates. That includes neocons like Kinzinger and a few people who call themselves libertarians (like Sarwark, former chair) who would rather talk about and actually believe that Jan 6 was a bigger threat to people's liberty than the government closing businesses or telling people they have to get a vaccine to go to a grocery store. It's so beyond irrational to me and a nasty perversion of priorities. When Glenn Greenwald has a better take about this stuff than libertarians who used to run the party something is deeply wrong.

With that said, I'm not personally concerned in my personal life. Wisconsin can't go back to mask mandates and lockdowns, and I'm not wearing a mask anymore period, and the majority of people aren't either. I'm just deeply concerned about the country as a whole and places where people can't escape from it (like NYC), and even more so internationally where places like Australia have embraced complete totalitarianism.

Do you think restrictions are still going to be a part of life a year from now? And how are they going to affect the midterms?

It will be for some people. The same people living with restrictions endlessly though are going to be disproportionately the people who support it and want it, so there's that. It won't be a part of my life. But yes I don't expect this to go away any time soon, and with the rollout of booster shots expect yearly booster shots so big pharma can make maximum profits. Then we'll see people demonizing the "under-vaccinated" which will be hilarious yet terrifying at the same time.

I can't say at this point how they're going to affect the midterms, but I'd expect if this is still a hot topic by then it's only going to hurt the Democrats. Biden's approval has dropped significantly not only because of foreign affairs recently but also because his covid approval dropped way down from like 60% to ~52%. Considering that Biden ran on eradicating this thing, and said thing arguably put him over the finish line, if it's not taken care of by 2022, it's not going to be a good look. And obviously, I don't expect that any government action can actually tackle day to day spread of a virus, but when you promise something impossible you shouldn't expect people to support you when you fail to live up to it.

This is somewhat of a sidebar conversation, but I think there's something deeply puzzling and wrong about polls when it comes to covid issues. The day-to-day interaction I see and the real data on vaccines completely contradict polling on covid measures that suggest people overwhelmingly support it. Black Americans for example are one of the least vaccinated demographics in America, yet some polling early on has suggested they are vaccinated at the same rate as white Americans when that has never been the case. I also recall how polls fail to capture how large Hillary's and Biden's wins in South Carolina (D primaries) were when I think about this, and I don't see how there's not some connection between these inaccuracies. Polls also report large majorities of Americans still wearing masks, but based on my experience that is so laughably wrong it's not even funny, even in blue areas. I'm not even suggesting the polls are rigged, but either people are lying, or the people who are anti-covid measures are very disproportionately not answering polls. It's probably a combination of both.

One thing's for sure, if people like Ron DeSantis are winning by large margins by making this an issue, and people like Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom are losing (or almost losing, in Gavin's case) it doesn't matter to me what the issue polls say. It'll be clear what people really believe.

[Calthrina950]

This is increasingly defining my politics and values as a person. Anybody who's not seriously concerned about this, or much worse cheers it on, is not somebody who I can align myself with politically, and I won't vote for anybody who supports any of the draconian government mandates. That includes neocons like Kinzinger and a few people who call themselves libertarians (like Sarwark, former chair) who would rather talk about and actually believe that Jan 6 was a bigger threat to people's liberty than the government closing businesses or telling people they have to get a vaccine to go to a grocery store. It's so beyond irrational to me and a nasty perversion of priorities. When Glenn Greenwald has a better take about this stuff than libertarians who used to run the party something is deeply wrong.

With that said, I'm not personally concerned in my personal life. Wisconsin can't go back to mask mandates and lockdowns, and I'm not wearing a mask anymore period, and the majority of people aren't either. I'm just deeply concerned about the country as a whole and places where people can't escape from it (like NYC), and even more so internationally where places like Australia have embraced complete totalitarianism.

Do you think restrictions are still going to be a part of life a year from now? And how are they going to affect the midterms?

It will be for some people. The same people living with restrictions endlessly though are going to be disproportionately the people who support it and want it, so there's that. It won't be a part of my life. But yes I don't expect this to go away any time soon, and with the rollout of booster shots expect yearly booster shots so big pharma can make maximum profits. Then we'll see people demonizing the "under-vaccinated" which will be hilarious yet terrifying at the same time.

I can't say at this point how they're going to affect the midterms, but I'd expect if this is still a hot topic by then it's only going to hurt the Democrats. Biden's approval has dropped significantly not only because of foreign affairs recently but also because his covid approval dropped way down from like 60% to ~52%. Considering that Biden ran on eradicating this thing, and said thing arguably put him over the finish line, if it's not taken care of by 2022, it's not going to be a good look. And obviously, I don't expect that any government action can actually tackle day to day spread of a virus, but when you promise something impossible you shouldn't expect people to support you when you fail to live up to it.

This is somewhat of a sidebar conversation, but I think there's something deeply puzzling and wrong about polls when it comes to covid issues. The day-to-day interaction I see and the real data on vaccines completely contradict polling on covid measures that suggest people overwhelmingly support it. Black Americans for example are one of the least vaccinated demographics in America, yet some polling early on has suggested they are vaccinated at the same rate as white Americans when that has never been the case. I also recall how polls fail to capture how large Hillary's and Biden's wins in South Carolina (D primaries) were when I think about this, and I don't see how there's not some connection between these inaccuracies. Polls also report large majorities of Americans still wearing masks, but based on my experience that is so laughably wrong it's not even funny, even in blue areas. I'm not even suggesting the polls are rigged, but either people are lying, or the people who are anti-covid measures are very disproportionately not answering polls. It's probably a combination of both.

One thing's for sure, if people like Ron DeSantis are winning by large margins by making this an issue, and people like Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom are losing (or almost losing, in Gavin's case) it doesn't matter to me what the issue polls say. It'll be clear what people really believe.

I agree with you, particularly with the paragraph I've bolded. I've noted how my job (Home Depot) reimposed its mask mandate for employees at the beginning of this month. I've gotten used to having to wear a mask again (out of necessity), although I detest it and can't wait for the day when I finally no longer have to wear them (as I will also be obliged to while traveling and while on campus). The CDC had lifted its mask recommendations back in May with the promise-which Biden promoted-that if you got vaccinated, you would no longer have to wear a mask. With mask mandates having been reimposed in many settings and many jurisdictions-and the TSA's mask mandate being extended to mid-January-it is clear that this was a lie.

But most people aren't adhering to the revised CDC guidelines. I would say ~70-80% of people where I live are no longer wearing a mask, while 20-30% continue to do so. The numbers have gone back up compared to where they were a month ago, but they're certainly not a majority as the polls have indicated. I think that opinions on mask mandates and mask-wearing have become polarized along partisan lines at this point. Most Republicans are opposed to them and are no longer wearing them (or never wore them), while most Democrats still support them and are more likely to still wear them.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Mask mandates are usually not written for aggressive enforcement except in military dictatorships.

But schools and colleges are basically military dictatorships.