Eva Murry falsely accuses Biden of complimenting her breasts

[GeneralMacArthur]

Seems unlikely that Biden would be going to political events in Delaware while he was VP. Can't say for certain, obviously. And Murry's insistence that she was 14 at the time makes it unlikely that she got the year wrong anyway.

So either she mistook the identity (though O'Donnell claiming to be there makes that less likely), or she lied (although it seems unlikely that O'Donnell would go along with that too).

Is it too contrived to speculate mistaken identity AND O'Donnell's claim to have witnessed it directly is a false memory because she's heard the story so many times intrafamily over the last 12 years?

No, O'Donnell is a tea party lunatic, she is either lying or simply backing up her niece and assuming she's telling the truth.

Her niece is lying.  She saw that the Tara Reade lie worked and wanted to try it on for herself.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For the millionth time: We should have nominated Bernie.

Republicans would be throwing these same stories at Bernie, or Warren, or Pete, or anyone we nominated. They literally promised to do so in 2018 as revenge for Kavanaugh.

When did they promise to engage in slander and libel?

Or is it slander and libel when a Republican is accused, but "Standing Up For Women!" when is accused?  Do we Believe All Women?  Or do we disbelieve women who accuse Democrats because it's inconvenient and work to actively trash their reputations HONESTLY vet all accusations, and not put the confirming/debunking process solely in the hands of an incredibly biased media?

Keep in mind that I've not DIS-believed Blasey Ford, nor did I support Kavanaugh's confirmation.  Nor have I said that I believe Reade's accusations.  In a Court of Law, neither accusation would stand up.  But in a background interview for any number of sensitive positions, both accusations, and the evidence behind them, would be sufficient grounds to not hire the prospective applicant for law enforcement or any number of positions that would require a Security Clearance.

On this issue, the issue of who do we believe, the Democrats are exposed as having to backtrack on something they presented as axiomatic in 2018.  "Believe All Women"; that was the mantra.  That some Leftist Politician would step up to a mic and say "I believe Dr. Blasey Ford!" with the proper seriousness and go into a melodramatic spiel about victims being silenced and needing vocal advocacy is presented as EVIDENCE, when it is somwhere between ADVOCACY and PROPAGANDA.  Advocacy and Propoganda are not evidence, period.  There WAS evidence that Dr. Blasey Ford was telling the truth.  There was some evidence to place her truthfulness in doubt.  In the end, there really is not enough evidence to meet the Probable Cause standard against Kavanaugh.  But I wouldn't hire Kavanaugh to be a cop or a Federal Prosecutor.

I fail to see, however, how Tara Reade's accusation is any less credible than Dr. Blasey Ford's.  It's certainly in the same general "she said/he said" range, with reasons to believe and reasons to doubt for both.  Neither allegation meets a Probable Cause standard.  The ALLEGED CIRCUMSTANCES of Kavanaugh's alleged acts are more serious, but the alleged circumstances of Biden's alleged acts against Reade do rise to the level of a criminal offense, and were allegedly committed when Biden was a sitting Senator, whereas Kavanaugh's alleged actions were committed when he was 17 years old, not even a legal adult.

Perhaps what I would like to see is not Democrats throwing Biden to the wolves.  Biden deserves to be treated fairly, but so does Kavanaugh.  Kavanaugh is treated like a Sex Offender, whereas Biden is treated as a Victim of a Wrongful Accuser.  That's not right.  If we're going to consider the allegations against Kavanaugh as legitimate and the proper course of action to be to keep digging until there is enough evidence to impeach him, why should we do less in regard to allegations with the same level of overall credibility leveled against a man who, at this writing, is the person most likely to be President on January 21, 2021?

Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist who faced an extremely credible allegation supported by actual evidence which still has not been seriously investigated.  Biden was falsely accused of...what, exactly?  Rape?  Sexual Assault?  Sexual Harassment?  Kidnapping the Lindbergh baby?  Sorry, Reade’s changed the most fundamental aspects of her story so often that I can’t even keep track of what she’s accusing Biden of.  Her allegations are not even remotely credible and the so-called “evidence” has more holes in it than a wheel of Swiss cheese.  

The efforts by some Republicans to warp the meaning of “believe all women” and pretend there is any equivalency between Dr. Ford and Tara Reade’s allegations are simply not rooted in objective reality at best and a deliberate effort by morally-bankrupt bad-faith hacks to peddle a false rape allegation for political gain at worst.  There is no comparison and to equate this allegations is a slap in the face to every sex crime victim in America.

You may not be posting in bad-faith, Fuzzy, but you’re simply wrong on this one all the same.

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't. 

Let the Democratic Left EXPLICITLY walk that back, and let that revised standard apply to Kavanaugh as well.  Because Kavanaugh's guilt is far from a slam dunk.  It's far from Probable Cause.

[7,052,770]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

[wbrocks67]

This story needs to just evaporate considering now fact-checking has written off 2007, 2008, 2009, and pretty much every other year they now say it may have happened.

The fact that she had 7 people lie for her though easily makes me question the few people who suddenly came forward saying Reade told them.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

The fact that she had 6 people corroborate her accusation only for it to tumble apart because of Biden never being in attendance shows that we shouldn't treat friend/neighbor/family member corroboration as smoking gun evidence unless they actually witnessed the crime.

It's super easy to just text two of your BFFs and ask them to back you up on an allegation.

[Fuzzy Bear]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

[7,052,770]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

You linked me an instagram search full of conservatives mocking the idea of #BelieveAllWomen and two articles from anti #MeToo writers being like "hey, I guess it's not ALL women is it??"

So ... exactly what I said would be out there. It's mind-boggling that you actually thought that posting those links would be what I'm looking for, when I made it clear that I'd already seen that kind of thing and wanted some source of a liberal (well, really a pro-#MeToo) saying it unironically.

[Landslide Lyndon]

In Fuzzy's mind Bari Weiss is probably considered a fire-breathing liberal.

[7,052,770]

In Fuzzy's mind Bari Weiss is probably considered a fire-breathing liberal.

And even if she is, unless she has unironically said that ALL women must be believed, no matter what the evidence suggests, it doesn't answer my question.

[Fuzzy Bear]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

You linked me an instagram search full of conservatives mocking the idea of #BelieveAllWomen and two articles from anti #MeToo writers being like "hey, I guess it's not ALL women is it??"

So ... exactly what I said would be out there. It's mind-boggling that you actually thought that posting those links would be what I'm looking for, when I made it clear that I'd already seen that kind of thing and wanted some source of a liberal (well, really a pro-#MeToo) saying it unironically.

Bari Weiss of the NYT is hardle a conservative.

[Suburbia]

If the story is false, I will not apologize, because I reported the story here.

Biden needs to either sue these people or come clean and get out of his Delaware basement.

[BlueSwan]

Does anyone really believe that if this had happened, and Christine O'Donnell was present and felt sick at it, that O'Donnell wouldn't have said something about it before now?

Yeah, this just seems incredibly, incredibly unlikely. That alone makes me 99% sure that O'Donnell at least, is lying.

[Kleine Scheiße]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

Reminder that Ford couldn't even get 7 lol

The people who asked the FBI to interview them and were ignored have entered the chat.

[Kleine Scheiße]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

You're vested in this narrative, and you'll say this, regardless of the facts.

And you may be right.  Both of them may, indeed, be flat out lying.  The solution to that is for Democrats to walk back the ridiculous aspects of the #MeToo movement.  It IS possible to bring sexual offenders to justice without trashing the principles of the defendant being presumed innocent, the right of a defendant to confront witnesses and put forth defenses, and the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Because it's better that Christine Blasey Ford be doubted and Brett Kavanaugh not be prosecuted that Cathleen Crowell Webb making a false allegation and Gary Dotson spending years in prison in Illinois.

When was Kavanaugh's prosecution ever on the table? When, exactly, did Ford call for Kavanaugh to be thrown in prison?

The "ridiculous aspect" of #MeToo is generally reported to be the presumption that a woman is telling the truth as a general rule. The word "presumption" gets used a lot in this context. I would advise you to familiarize yourself with the nature of "presumptions" and how they can generally be confirmed or denied through examination of the evidence. Otherwise, it seems like you aren't actually upset about the degradation of due process and instead would just rather we make no analysis at all and instead shrug everything off until there's smoking-gun proof.

Not sure why you're bringing up Dotson's case from 1979 in your very specific attempt to critique the #MeToo movement, started in 2017, but go off, I guess.

[GeneralMacArthur]

If the story is false, I will not apologize, because I reported the story here.

It's not your fault, you were misled by journalists like Ryan Grim in whom you've placed your trust.

The solution is to stop trusting these hack fraud journalists and realize they're just going to misinform you when it suits their partisan purposes.

Biden needs to either sue these people or come clean and get out of his Delaware basement.

COVID-19 not real

[Figueira]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

You linked me an instagram search full of conservatives mocking the idea of #BelieveAllWomen and two articles from anti #MeToo writers being like "hey, I guess it's not ALL women is it??"

So ... exactly what I said would be out there. It's mind-boggling that you actually thought that posting those links would be what I'm looking for, when I made it clear that I'd already seen that kind of thing and wanted some source of a liberal (well, really a pro-#MeToo) saying it unironically.

Bari Weiss of the NYT is hardle a conservative.

She may not be a conservative, but she's still using "believe all women" as a strawman.