Hamas wins.

[MasterJedi]

Opebo is also forgetting that the Palestinians stole Israel long before that.

So let's hand the land back to the Caananites, since they are the earliest known possessors of the land.

Well they're not around anymore.

You should thus return your land to the Native Americans.

Nobody is stopping you from giving your house to them......

[phk]

Opebo is also forgetting that the Palestinians stole Israel long before that.

So let's hand the land back to the Caananites, since they are the earliest known possessors of the land.

Well they're not around anymore.

You should thus return your land to the Native Americans.

Nobody is stopping you from giving your house to them......

Whats going in the Middle East is, retroactive legislation, by force.

If there were no religous implications to the whole deal, it would be dismissed as something on par with modern-day blacks demanding reparations for slavery. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There are different ways to fight - depending on your enemy, non-violent resistance is a viable option. Every time Hamas sends a suicide bomber to kill Israeli civilians, Israel feels justified in realitating, and then Hamas feels justified in sending another bomber once they do - Hamas is the group that is instigating the violence far more.

You're neglecting the fact that the Isrealis stole 'isreal' in the first place!

That was decades ago, most people from that day and age are dead. Concentrating on the here and now is what's important, and right now it's the Palestinians who need to lay down their arms first if they want things to get any better.

Opebo is also forgetting that the Palestinians stole Israel long before that.

That's not only not really true, but that type of retroactivist logic isn't going to work for many reasons. For example, do the people in Wales, Scotland and Ireland have the right to force the people in living in England back to central Europe since England was stolen initially by the Anglo-Saxons?

Besides that, modern day Jews are most likely not the descendents of the Jews of the Bible, but rather an ancient kingdom in the Caucusus that converted to Judaism. No one has been able to find a link to the ancient Twelve Tribes, it's likely that they were assimiliated into the areas they ended up in, many into the Arabs. Therefore more Palestineans probably have ancient links to the land than Jews, if you honestly think crap that happened 2000 years ago is relevant to what to do today.

[opebo]

If there were no religous implications to the whole deal, it would be dismissed as something on par with modern-day blacks demanding reparations for slavery. 

You people are ridiculous, compareing the situation in Isreal to that of the American Indian, the black, or the Celts in Britain.  This happened just 50 or so years ago!  And the key is not religion, phknrocket, it is that the palestinians are still there fighting.  If they had taken the course recommended by all of you - surrender - they would be in the same condition as the black in america. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If there were no religous implications to the whole deal, it would be dismissed as something on par with modern-day blacks demanding reparations for slavery. 

You people are ridiculous, compareing the situation in Isreal to that of the American Indian, the black, or the Celts in Britain.  This happened just 50 or so years ago!  And the key is not religion, phknrocket, it is that the palestinians are still there fighting.  If they had taken the course recommended by all of you - surrender - they would be in the same condition as the black in america. 

I was actually comparing the Celts to MasterJedi's claim that the Palestienans "stole" that land earlier. Based on this precedent then anyone would be right if they were to go to some place that their ancestors had lived 2000 years ago and used terrorist tactics like the Irgun to get a hold of that.

[opebo]

If there were no religous implications to the whole deal, it would be dismissed as something on par with modern-day blacks demanding reparations for slavery. 

You people are ridiculous, compareing the situation in Isreal to that of the American Indian, the black, or the Celts in Britain.  This happened just 50 or so years ago!  And the key is not religion, phknrocket, it is that the palestinians are still there fighting.  If they had taken the course recommended by all of you - surrender - they would be in the same condition as the black in america. 

I was actually comparing the Celts to MasterJedi's claim that the Palestienans "stole" that land earlier. Based on this precedent then anyone would be right if they were to go to some place that their ancestors had lived 2000 years ago and used terrorist tactics like the Irgun to get a hold of that.

Oh, right - yes the 'return' of the jews is not unlike Indians taking america back from whitey.

I think the distinction is that the Palestinians have never left, never been killed off, and are still there fighting the Isrealis (quite heroically).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Blowing up a bus full of children is not heroic.

[opebo]

Blowing up a bus full of children is not heroic.

No?  Well, not to you, but apparently it is to the Palestinians.