Opinion of the Welfare State?

[Conservatopia]

I struggle to see how somebody can profess Christianity (or many other religions) and be anti-welfare.

Sure you may disagree on how much welfare needs to be "given out" but to actually oppose the whole welfare state as a concept?

Feels bad man.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Capitalism cannot be destroyed

You should be institutionalized.

things always turn out well when socialists respond to opinions they don't like with this kind of thing!

“Capitalism cannot be destroyed” hardly counts as a logically coherent statement, let alone an opinion that can be defended. Vosem believes everything Good is capitalism the way Jacobin writers believe everything Bad is capitalism. It’s just absurd.

Anyway, the existence of the welfare state allows my sister to access necessary services and provided a floor for my late grandparents, so for the most self-interested Rational (TM) reasons I must approve of it!

Also, I don’t think everybody but the rich should have to suffer and take their chances just to survive. Others may disagree. THOSE are opinions.

[Vosem]

Capitalism cannot be destroyed

You should be institutionalized.

things always turn out well when socialists respond to opinions they don't like with this kind of thing!

“Capitalism cannot be destroyed” hardly counts as a logically coherent statement, let alone an opinion that can be defended. Vosem believes everything Good is capitalism the way Jacobin writers believe everything Bad is capitalism. It’s just absurd.

Anyway, the existence of the welfare state allows my sister to access necessary services and provided a floor for my late grandparents, so for the most self-interested Rational (TM) reasons I must approve of it!

Also, I don’t think everybody but the rich should have to suffer and take their chances just to survive. Others may disagree. THOSE are opinions.

It is a perfectly coherent statement. You cannot remove the incentive for monetary profit from a society; many have tried and all have failed. (Given that even very simple societies do not stop using money once you introduce it to them -- unlike 'weaker' innovations such as writing, which sometimes can be lost -- this substantially implies that you really can't without killing everyone). Arbitrage was still a thing in the Soviet Union even under Stalin, and this also uniformly goes for other recorded command economies.

When people call for dismantling capitalism, they are usually upset that people are acting in ways motivated by profit. I do not think it is physically possible to stop this from happening. Maybe you can convince me that it could be done by some sci-fi social technology which would supersede/obsolesce money, but I've never seen a coherent suggestion for one: when people call for 'dismantling capitalism' they normally mean they want more state control of the economy, which has historically resulted in the consequences I've discussed upthread.

[Antonio the Sixth]

One of the greatest inventions in the history of humankind.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Capitalism cannot be destroyed

You should be institutionalized.

things always turn out well when socialists respond to opinions they don't like with this kind of thing!

“Capitalism cannot be destroyed” hardly counts as a logically coherent statement, let alone an opinion that can be defended. Vosem believes everything Good is capitalism the way Jacobin writers believe everything Bad is capitalism. It’s just absurd.

Anyway, the existence of the welfare state allows my sister to access necessary services and provided a floor for my late grandparents, so for the most self-interested Rational (TM) reasons I must approve of it!

Also, I don’t think everybody but the rich should have to suffer and take their chances just to survive. Others may disagree. THOSE are opinions.

It is a perfectly coherent statement. You cannot remove the incentive for monetary profit from a society; many have tried and all have failed. (Given that even very simple societies do not stop using money once you introduce it to them -- unlike 'weaker' innovations such as writing, which sometimes can be lost -- this substantially implies that you really can't without killing everyone). Arbitrage was still a thing in the Soviet Union even under Stalin, and this also uniformly goes for other recorded command economies.

When people call for dismantling capitalism, they are usually upset that people are acting in ways motivated by profit. I do not think it is physically possible to stop this from happening. Maybe you can convince me that it could be done by some sci-fi social technology which would supersede/obsolesce money, but I've never seen a coherent suggestion for one: when people call for 'dismantling capitalism' they normally mean they want more state control of the economy, which has historically resulted in the consequences I've discussed upthread.

There's no difference between socialism and no welfare state? Man, Norway sure is Venezuela. Last year when I was on vacation the market ran out of food and we had to eat shoes.

[TheReckoning]

Providing welfare to it’s citizens is indeed the role of the state to begin with.

[jamestroll]

Necessary part of government, and should have been expanded in Biden's first year in office but there are many holes in the system.

Do I care about the single mother working the drive through at Wendys? Not really. I know she has food stamps, medicaid, section 8, and a ton of other things.  

Am I worried about the homeless? usually yes, but I can not help them directly. I donate to shelters, but would never help them on the streets.

It is the lower income working class I worry the most about. The people's whose incomes are not high enough to live well, but to high for any assistance.

What I did not like is some online liberals intending to use covid relief to create a permanent welfare state. Do not think I did not know what they were doing!!

Every time I venture into reddit or another online site I see these insane socialists/communists etc.

I tend to be more far more concerned about the poor who were born poor. if it is an adult that is poor due to own faults, its more complicated.