Synagogue shooting in Germany, two dead

[Middle-aged Europe]

Multiple shooters have killed two people near a synagogue and also have thrown a grenade on a Jewish cemetary in my hometown of Halle (Saale), Saxony-Anhalt.

One of the perpetrators is reported to have been arrested, others are still on the run. So far, there's no definite information whether they are Islamists or Nazis.

A news report said that a Turkish Döner joint was also targeted in the attack which may point to a right-wing extremist background, but I guess it's still too early to be sure.

There apparently was also a subsequent shooting about 15 kilometers out of town which may have been related to the remaining perps being on the run and pursued by the police.

My mother is safe, although she's unable to get home from work due to the police closing off the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/09/two-people-killed-in-shooting-in-german-city-of-halle

[Gass3268]

On Yom Kippur no less, sigh

[Middle-aged Europe]

On Yom Kippur no less, sigh

Fortunately, it seems to be an example of a (largely) botched terrorist attack. They failed to enter the synagogue - which at the time had 70 to 80 people in it - due to the security doors at the entrance.

A spokesperson for Germany's Federal Prosecutor General has just said that they're handling this as a right-wing extremist act. At least one of the perpetrators had also been described by police sources as a German national earlier today. The perpetrators were wearing military/SWAT-style clothing and used WWII-era Soviet rifles.

The information about the two killings has in so far also been specified that apparently only one of the victims was shot near the synagogue, while the second one is now reported to have been killed "at a snack stand". It's unclear whether this refers to the earlier mentioned Turkish kebab shop.

One or more of the perpetrators who were still at large had apparently holed themselves up in a village 15 kilometers from the city, although there's now a very fresh report of at least one person being successfully arrested there.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The main Terrorist is apparently a white German Citizen. According to FAZ there are connections to Austria, to specify Burgenland.  

The bolded part was apparently incorrectly reported. It is now said that leads point to the Burgenlandkreis county south of Halle where SWAT units are preparing arrests in the city of Weißenfels.

This in fact the second hot spot, because there have also been reports this whole afternoon about massive police acitivity in the Landsberg area west of Halle where one or more perpetrators have been reported as being holed up.


Body count as it stands now:

Two dead.

At least four injured (two victims in Halle itself, plus one tax driver who apparently was shot in Landsberg in an attempt to hijack a taxi, and finally the one perpetrator who was reported as being in custody who's now undergoing surgery).

[Tender Branson]

The main Terrorist is apparently a white German Citizen. According to FAZ there are connections to Austria, to specify Burgenland.  


We knew such a thing was coming. The Authorities have been warning about Neo_Nazi violence for years. If something good can come out of this tragic event, perhaps it will finally getting rid of the 17 different Internal Security Agencies (Verfassungsschutz), Federal and State, and establishing a completely new unitary Agency with the powers and the people running it to finally crack down hard.

Burgenland = Castle Country (=> Austria)

Burgenlandkreis = Castle Country District (=> Germany)

Would be strange that someone from our Burgenland would commit an anti-semitic attack in North Germany ...

[Omega21]

Really glad they did not succeed in their vile mission.

Now not only do we have to worry about Islamists, but homegrown Terrorists as well, but those things usually go hand in hand sadly.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Really glad they did not succeed in their vile mission.

Now not only do we have to worry about Islamists, but homegrown Terrorists as well, but those things usually go hand in hand sadly.

I doubt that today's events can be "linked" to Islamism. I happened to grow up in Halle myself and due to this I'd call myself unsurprised that this happened now. Maybe surprised that it took that long to finally happen. Back in the 90s it was commonplace on school trips to play right-wing music in which according to the lyrcis the dumb Turk was stabbed in his belly thirty, fourty times as much as it was normal to play with National Socialist symbolism and codes on the schoolyard. Did the teachers notice that? Yes. Was it any way adressed in class? No. I didn't regard my school as very unusual, if anything maybe above average on social background and income of the families.

The Islamists simply happened to get there first, but the roots of right-wing terrorism in East Germany can be traced back to the 80s or 90s... maybe even the 40s and 50s if we count the founding of East Germany as the initial starting point for getting here.

[Omega21]

Really glad they did not succeed in their vile mission.

Now not only do we have to worry about Islamists, but homegrown Terrorists as well, but those things usually go hand in hand sadly.

I doubt that today's events can be "linked" to Islamism. I happened to grow up in Halle myself and due to this I'd call myself unsurprised that this happened now. Maybe surprised that it took that long to finally happen. Back in the 90s it was commonplace on school trips to play right-wing music in which according to the lyrcis the dumb Turk was stabbed in his belly thirty, fourty times as much as it was normal to play with National Socialist symbolism and codes on the schoolyard. Did the teachers notice that? Yes. Was it any way adressed in class? No. I didn't regard my school as very unusual, if anything maybe above average on social background and income of the families.

The Islamists simply happened to get there first, but the roots of right-wing terrorism in East Germany can be traced back to the 80s or 90s... maybe even the 40s and 50s if we count the founding of East Germany as the initial starting point for getting here.

Oh no, I didn't mean it in that way. This particular attack is a result of right-wing extremists, and since the victims were Jews, there's no link whatsoever with this case.

I just mentioned that Islamic attacks usually fuel even more extreme xenophobia in certain circles (like fire bombings of Asylum centres etc.), but not that xenophobia didn't already exist within those groups.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This cancer never went away, and there's no meaningful difference between "right-wing" and "left-wing" antisemitism. The antisemite is a conspiracy theorist for which all other politics is subservient to going after the Jews. Hopefully the vile rats responsible are tracked down and eliminated soon.

[Mr. Illini]

Extremely tragic and made worse by the timing. Thankfully they did not achieve their goal.

Western nations have to do more to address the rise in right wing violence just as we have done for Islamist violence.

[Silent Hunter]

Security doors and guards at synagogue doors have been a thing for decades. We have something called the Community Security Trust that patrols and protects synagogues in the UK.

[dead0man]

Security doors and guards at synagogue doors have been a thing for decades. We have something called the Community Security Trust that patrols and protects synagogues in the UK.

sadly, they are becoming the norm here too

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Good nazis are ones with bullets in their head. Here's to hoping that they put one in their head instead of capturing them. Rot in hell disgusting haters of the Jewish people.

[Tender Branson]

So, the Neonazi wanted to kill Jews an foreigners.

He ended up killing a 40-year old native German woman (Jana) and a 20-year old native German guy (Kevin).

[President Johnson]

This is an epidemic. There are, according to the Interior Ministry, 24,000 neo nazis and many of them are violent. After the Lübcke assassination, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more stuff like this. And people like certain AfD figures or Donald Trump in the US bear a responsibility for their hateful language.

[NOVA Green]

I remember when I first lived in Germany in the early/mid '90s hearing a saying something to the equivalent of the following:


Die deutsche Justiz ist auf dem rechten Auge blind

Translated roughly as: "Germany Justice is blind in the Right Eye"

Although I heard this initially from activists with history Left-Wing neue soziale Bewegung (NSB) movements of the late '70s and '80s, it is an older phrase that goes back to the rebuilding of the West German State in the Allied Military Occupation Regime.

Essentially, the argument is thus that the German legal system and post WW II Constitution, effectively has used the legal framework to repress the German Political Left, while taking little action against the extreme Right Neo-Nazi political formations.

Link

Link

Although these particular book posts images do not directly reference this concept, I believe they do reference this peculiar phenomenon, which is something first observed in the late in the late '60s during the height of the Außerparlamentarische Opposition (APO), effectively the Student Movement of the era.

The concept of historical continuity between former NAZI Party members being allowed to assume significant positions of economic, judicial, and political power within Germany, as well as what was essentially an existential debate among the German "Baby Boom" Generation, where the question was inevitably asked: "Where were you during the War" created a German Youth Movement that was not only extremely militantly Leftist, but also a massive rise of political repression against the political Left in the '70s.

Regardless, Neo-Nazi and Neo-Fascist underground organizations continued to exist and expand, recruiting new members in West Germany after the first wave of the Oil Shock hit in '73/'74.

To avoid German legal restrictions, they claimed to be supporters of the Strasser Brothers....

Interestingly enough, in the late '80s before the Fall of the Wall, German Security forces were still busy raiding left-wing bookstores, housing squats, etc... while meanwhile German Neo-Nazis were reconstituting their political formations.

Nach dem Wende, West German Neo-Nazi political formations diverted a major amount of resources into building a political infrastructure, political communication, and underground movement in an attempt to exploit legitimate grievances of the East German population with record unemployment, and in particular record youth unemployment, at a time where former state run factories and farms were being closed down for lack of West German funding....

An Antifa organization emerges both in East and West Germany to defend against the violent assaults against "foreigners", "asylum seekers", and "guest-workers".

Again German Justice chose to focus political repression on the political left rather than the organizations, individuals, and communities responsible for what in '93/'94 was essentially an attempted Pogrom against the weak and powerlessness.

Sadly, the German Government folded to the onslaught of a revival of Neo-Nazi and
Rechtsextremist activity and essentially banned Asylum Seekers from moving to Germany, while meanwhile the aussiedler (Ethnic Germans from Central and Eastern Europe) had essentially guaranteed rights and citizenship.

Sigh.... when I lived in Berlin in '94 it was awesome to see the revival of a Jewish culture within the City (albeit all Temples and Cultural Centers were protected 24x7 by police officers armed with semi-automatic weapons--- have a photo I took at Night in my library somewhere).

Shortly after, I was in Krakow Poland and the group I was with went to an historic synagogue that had been rebuilt with blood sweat and tears, and I even visited the historic Jewish Cemetery where the NAZIs had attempted to smash the gravestones, where I took a few photos in remembrance.

An old homeless Polish man drunk on Vodka as we walk towards the Synagogue speaks words in Polish which I did not understand, but our translator embarrassingly described them as "vulgarly Anti-Semetic".

I saw my Sister's synagogue in Eugene, Oregon shot up by a Neo-Nazi organization some (20) Years back, but thankfully it was at Night and nobody was there.

After College in the Midwest and I come back home to Oregon, I dated a Woman for a Year who was a Jewish Emigree from Belarus, who managed to leave shortly before the collapse with a trajectory that included refugee camps in Italy, Israel, and then America, after fleeing what was a massive increase in Pogroms in Central & Eastern Europe while the Rump of the Soviet Empire in the form of the "New Russia" encouraged Anti-Jewish attitudes in an attempt to reclaim control of various former Soviet Republics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Belarus

Bottom line---- German Authorities need to use the massive forces of State Repression that they never used against the Political Extremist Right within the History of post WW II Germany, as opposed to the massive forces of State Repression that they utilized against the German Political Left from the '50s to the present day....

[NOVA Green]

urutzizu----

1.) I don't want to hijack the thread by going into a major tangent into the roots of Anti-Semitic political violence against Jewish populations within Germany, so I am not quoting your message in a attempt to keep it brief.

2.) I don't want to distract from the fact that this action occurred in Germany in 2019 at the hands of what appears to be a "self-identified" supporter of Neo-Nazi ideals, in what was most likely a "lone wolf" Domestic Terrorist assault within Germany.

3.) It has been over (20) Years since I last lived in Germany in a Country where for the Jewish Diaspora was starting to finally begin to return home, work, or visit places associated with one of the worst (If not the worst attempted Genocide in Modern History).

4.) As I stated before, Temples were protected by 24x7 armed German para-military officers throughout Germany in the Mid '90s. Is that no longer the case?

5.) Germany has a special "Schuld" for the history of the Holocaust, regardless of political party nor political orientations.

6.) You did raise some excellent points regarding minor political formations of the Left within Germany in the '60s and '70s, many of whom conflated the Jewish Zionist State (Which had strong left-wing Socialist roots from the diaspora as you are well aware--- just stating this for those that are not aware reading this post), as part of a strategy of an Anti-Imperialist Armed Guerrilla Movement within the Cities of Germany.

7.) It is important to note that this was a a small minority tendency within the successors of APO Movement.

8.) The repression against the Political Left in Germany unleashed after "German Fall" in '77 was not launched solely against members of the RAF and similar organizations (Which had relatively small support even among the Extreme-Left in Germany at that time), but against all Independent organizations of the former Student Movement including Independent Bookstores, Communal Living scenes, and massive police raids against anybody considered to be a "Leftist" in West Germany, while meanwhile the Neo-Nazis do not experience any massive repression nor raids, even to this present day.

9.) Although there is historical continuity in the form of a West German State that in the immediate post WW II era brought "reformed NAZIs" into top positions of political power, while meanwhile Public School students within the occupied territories watched "Holocaust Videos" as part of their History courses, and the younger generation of the '60s/'70s  directly gravitated towards the APO and the NSB, with die Grünen emerging as a major political electoral party by '83, and the Autonome Bewegung emerging as a more militant wing of the the same political forces, Germany slipped back in time in '94 where "ausländer raus" was a slogan that I was familiar with in America before I first touched down on German soil.

10.) Some arsehole reported my previous post.... hopefully because of how my lack of hyperlinks jacked the format.   

If not, it's because we have yet another Neo-Nazi sympathizer that didn't like what I had to say, or maybe because I was upset and posted a flag which I know might be controversial to some that don't understand the concept that if Government's don't take action to protect our communities, we will defend our communities if needed.

I don't need my Sister's synagogue getting shot up again.... a synagogue in Pittsburgh shot up, right down the road from two of my Nieces, their spouses and children.

I don't want to see African Immigrants getting tossed to their deaths at the hands of Nazi-Youth on an S-Bahn in Berlin, which happened a few Months before I moved to Berlin.

I don't want to see Political Asylum Seeker temporary housing assaulted by thousands of Militant Neo-Nazis, where the Former "East German Polizei" were on probation as part of the West German conquest of East Germany such as what happened in the early '90s....

Apologies for the rant, but it is clear to me that in Germany: Die deutsche Justiz ist auf dem rechten Auge blind

When I lived in Berlin there was a massive raid that involved over (160) House searches against Graffiti Artists that resulted in a massive number of Criminal Investigations and Convictions....

If Germany can use that type of power against Graffiti Artists using the power of the Staat, surely they can exercise that same power against the German Right Wing Extremists?

Regardless--- we now have two Dead in Germany at the hands of Extreme-Right fellow travelers.

Forbei---- I suggest perhaps another thread to discuss this topic further involving Anti-Semitic history within Germany, so as to not forgot those that lost their lives at the hands of the Neo-Nazi Crazy Man....