"Famous" fictional races that Tolkien did NOT reinvent and make his own?
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  "Famous" fictional races that Tolkien did NOT reinvent and make his own?
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Author Topic: "Famous" fictional races that Tolkien did NOT reinvent and make his own?  (Read 626 times)
Blue3
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« on: November 24, 2018, 09:35:29 PM »
« edited: October 06, 2019, 06:56:16 PM by Blue3 »

Claim: the only other fictional races that come close to being as deep and widespread... as instantly recognizable... in popular culture as Tolkien's Elf/Dwarf/Hobbit/Orc/Goblin/Troll/etc. reinventions in ALL of fiction (fantasy, science-fiction, horror, all of it)... are the
1. "Halloween" races (vampires, werewolves, zombies/mummies/skeletons/frankenstein... and somewhat ghosts & witches, if you count them as separate races from "humans")
2."Merfolk" (people of the seas like Mermaids).
(Angels, Demons, Giants, and "Gods" were not "reinvented" by Tolkien but were included in his works.)
Agree/disagree?

As everyone here especially knows, Tolkien truly remade the entire Fantasy genre. One obvious effect is how Tolkien's Dwarves & Tolkien's Elves (and to a lesser extent, the creation of Hobbits) not only made them the new "default" for all Dwarves and Elves in fantasy (unless otherwise noted), but these also became the "default" "fantasy races" period. Even when authors deliberately try to do something different, it's usually imagined like "think Tolkien's Hobbits, but they are seafaring, and have a different name!" or "think Tolkien's Dwarves, but they look like Cats!" or "think Tolkien's Elves, but they actually look Plant-like!".

Even famous science-fiction species don't come close... how often do we see "the Hutts" or "Twileks" from Star Wars cross over into other franchises? Has it happened even once? There are the Vulcans from Star Trek... but the Vulcans themselves are basically "Tolkien's Elves... in Space!", pointy-ears and all. And there are the countless "Orcs... in Space!" as villains. Maybe "Robots" or "Aliens" (ex: Greys, Little Green Men, Reptillians) as a whole... but that's iffy.

Even fantasy races from Ancient Greek Mythology, the "mainstream" European mythology for around 3000 years, that was famous and widespread for far longer than the Norse/Germanic that Tolkien was loosely inspired by, into the Renaissance and modern times... just aren't that prevalent in fantasy fiction. They had centaurs, satyrs, and nymphs... basically overly-sexualized "elves" with animal features (or plant/water features, in the case of many nymphs). How often do fantasy books/shows/movies/games include "centaurs" or "satyrs" as main races, compared to how many times fantasy books/shows/movies/games  include "dwarves" or "elves" or something like "hobbits"? Probably 10 to 1.

Other pagan traditions, like Fairies and Genies, Tolkien already accounted for... it's his conception of Elves, the "Fair Folk", which he talks about in essays as from the land of "Faerie." His fairies are clearly the Elves. Leprachauns are also widespread... but they're easily another form of Dwarf (love of gold) or maybe Elf.

Lovecraft's Cthullo mythos, while having made some some ground in popular culture, doesn't really have "set" races as much as it has "unimaginable horrors."

George RR Martin doesn't really focus on sentient fantasy races at all, his focus in A Song of Ice and Fire are humans. And the ones that he does include and talk about, "Children of the Forest," are really just another variation of Tolkien's Elves. Giants are scarcely mentioned, not really explored, just like in Tolkien's works. There are the White Walkers... which are a mix between Zombies (see below) and Elves.

JK Rowling did her own spin on Elves and Goblins, her Goblins are just as greedy just more "polite" as bankers now, her Elves as good and trusting and powerful (though ugly, and taken advantage of by becoming servants... perhaps different enough from Tolkien's, but by no means has this altered the popular culture's conception of "Elf" or become its own thing). She did give the stereotypical Tolkien-Elf traits to her Centaurs, though. Her Giants, like Tolkien's and Martin's, are scarcely mentioned and fit the same mold, always in the background, as in most stories. The rest are just a hodge-podge from existing lore, and not given enough detail to really stand-out as anything more than name-drops.

The only "fictional" races, from ALL of fiction, that I think even come close to being as prevalent as Tolkien's reinventions, are the "Halloween" variety:vampires, werewolves, zombies/mummies/skeletons/frankenstein... and somewhat ghosts & witches. As well as Merfolk (ex: mermaids).

(Maybe angels and demons, loosely based on the Bible, or Giants (including varieties like Bigfoot/Yeti), or the Greek gods themselves... but Tolkien also includes them as well.)

Really, the only other fictional races that come close to being as deep and widespread in popular culture are the mentioned "Halloween" races above, and Merfolk/Merlings.

Maybe talking animals, any mythical beasts like unicorns/griffins/phoenixes/dragons/etc.?

Would anyone care to agree/disagree with this claim?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 11:24:36 PM »

Tolkien did try to incorporate vampires and werewolves; see the tale of Beren and Lúthien. He just didn't make use of them in The Lord of the Rings.

Also, when I think of gnomes and trolls, I think of these, not Tolkien:





The main reason Tolkein's elves, dwarves, and even halflings are so prevalent is that they're relatively cheap to film. They're humans with minor differences that can be played with a minimum of special effects and makeup.  Centaurs, satyrs, etc, take far more effort to film unless you're doing animation, such as the centaurs in Fantasia.
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PSOL
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 11:26:35 PM »

The only contender I can say is humanoid aliens with large heads, along with aliens in general in both the United States and West European audiences. Look how prevalent aliens are in pop culture and Urban folklore, they just need something prolific to tie the races together. I’m talking about the Greys mainly; along with reptilians, lovecraftian beings, etc.

I do suspect that once we start seriously exploring the solar system, aliens will be hotter than Tolkien’s elves. Who knows, maybe Lovecraft’s creatures get turned into space creatures to avoid, much like the Kraken for sailors or even Moby Dick. We just need an author to lead us forward into this new age, possibly taking inspiration from the previous worlds of Star Trek and Star Wars.

Another possible contender is creatures outside the European world. Currently, Japan is beating everybody in this race. As Anime becomes more mainstream and accessible to worldwide audiences, Japanese Yokai and other creatures had the chance to win out. It has been present since the mid-80s or so; meaning kids growing up with Inuyasha in the late 90s, Yo-kai Watch now, and Pokémon since hitting it on American TVs are definitely inspired by it. The only barriers to a cultural Japanese takeover is the explosion being mainly youth-oriented and the currently weak Japanese economy, preventing it from grabbing older audiences and push out content respectively. Heck, the current Korean Invasion of pop culture into Japanese and American audiences aren’t helping Japan’s fragmenting influence over cultural affairs. We’re seeing that being played out worldwide, what else can explain K-pop’s historic explosion among worldwide audiences, along with Korean movies and Series being very well received among foreign movie buffs here and across the world. Even so, a care for old monsters and heroes hasn’t produced a hit series that would cross over the Atlantic.

However, with the aging of Tolkien’s work, I can’t see a separation of his importance and influence. Whatever will stand in the way of elves and orks will have to break into inelastic demanding markets saturated with Tolkien fandoms. I can only see a sort of synthesis or adaptation, such as with the Vulcans in Star Trek, as the only way forward for now and possibly ever.
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Blue3
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2019, 06:37:20 PM »

Any other ideas or thoughts?
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2019, 11:00:16 PM »

Yeah, much of where Tolkien went was with The West.

The Kappa are quite famous now, but you won't see them in Middle-Earth as they are very much Japanese folklore.

Though fwiw, I'm pretty sure Minotaurs are more famous by C.S. Lewis than by Tolkien.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 12:59:01 AM »

Muslims and Poles
 
Wait never mind
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Nathan
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 10:35:27 PM »

There's really very little outside Northern and Western European mythology and folklore that Tolkien "made his own", although he incorporated elements from all over the world (people like to forget this in favor of his early, abandoned "mythology for England" objective, often for ideological reasons). He doesn't even do very much with Classical mythology; Lewis makes much more use of things like fauns and centaurs, and to the extent that Tolkien does have Classical models they're mostly in the themes and characters rather than the setting.
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 11:19:00 PM »

So many people ripped off his version of them though that he may as well have made them
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