Minutes of October 25th meeting

[12th Doctor]

In the interests of full disclosure, these are the minutes of the meeting of October 25th.  Warning, these are long.
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You have just entered room "chat18113875590225759045."
Casey the Pieman: Please don't turn this into a sex discussion.
emsworth04: i would be glad if we could all keep to the topic of the midwest crisis, thank you
ilikeverin: lol
supersoulty: Well, I guess I am still the Sec. of the Treasury
emsworth04: at present, it has been suggested that the midwest be allowed to remain an independent nation during negotiations
supersoulty: WHAT?
emsworth04: to me, this is completely untenable
DAskidude2008: guys, i have to go
DAskidude2008: sorry
emsworth04: goodbye
emsworth04: we cannot negotiate at gunpoint
DAskidude2008: i have a ton of homework i hve to catch up on
M A S 1 1  7: ok bye
DAskidude2008 has left the room.
supersoulty: There are no negotiations.  They come back.  We deal with the crisis together.
Casey the Pieman: So do I, although I have to take a shower.
emsworth04: that is my position as well
: Emsworth, you returned rather recently...this is cyclical.
Casey the Pieman has left the room.
the life of Q: How will they be convinced to do so?
ilikeverin: offer them cake
: As far as I can tell (and I'm fairly new) this always happens in exact correlation with how poorly the elections went.
: The SoFA invalidates their registration, and they get bored by being unable to vote.  They come back.
emsworth04: that is what i was hoping all of you could advise me on--how to convince them otherwise
emsworth04: we cannot be blackmailed into reforms
supersoulty: I'm not calling for a new government anymore.  That was wrong of me, and that is why I resigned.  But I can't accept "negotiations" when we have nothing to talk about.
emsworth04: very good
the life of Q: the position being that a voter cannot be registered in both "nations" simultaneously
ilikeverin: yeah
supersoulty: We all want reforms.  I don't understand what this is all about.
emsworth04: yes, absolutely true
supersoulty: Other than they just want to make noise.
ilikeverin: see, I might have a purpose, eliminating their registrations =-O
M A S 1 1  7: we can not move forward into fixing this problem without the midwest
emsworth04: the problem must be fixed by a unified nation, not by a fragmented corpse of a country
supersoulty: I would be nice if we had our President here
: Just look at the people who are moving.
: Everett, CheeseWhiz, DanielX...none of these are problem-makers
M A S 1 1  7: ilv sign the damn paper so we can have emsworth as acting president
: They'll get bored quickly.  They don't want conflict
emsworth04: well, super, i'm the best you have at present :-)
ilikeverin: no, I won't be blackmailed into it
: Blackmailed?  Someone is blackmailing you?
M A S 1 1  7: whos blackmailing u dumbass?
the life of Q: can they just be ignored?
ilikeverin: MAS :-P
supersoulty: I accept that.  I was just making a general critique of the way things run around here.
M A S 1 1  7: how am i blackmailing u
ilikeverin: threatening and undemocratic ;-)
M A S 1 1  7: shut up and the sign paper already
the life of Q: hey now
M A S 1 1  7: we need leadership
M A S 1 1  7: how about we just impeach verin and then me and super can act has majority of the cabinet
supersoulty: verin, sign the paper, and we will make sure you don;t disappear into total obscurity
M A S 1 1  7: :-D
emsworth04: please, again, i want us to focus on the problem at hand--how to solve the midwest crisis. all these personal attacks are not necessary
supersoulty: Can't say the same for myself, unfortunately
: I don't think this is a crisis.
M A S 1 1  7: i am trying to help
M A S 1 1  7: and creating a vacancy is going to do it
M A S 1 1  7: we need leadership
: I think everyone is being extremely melodramatic.
M A S 1 1  7: we need a president
ilikeverin: ahem
ilikeverin: back to the topic of discussion
M A S 1 1  7: ilv is single handedly slowing down the process
: MAS, please take your grandstanding elsewhere.
emsworth04: how should we deal with the midwest then, alcon?
: Ask nicely.
M A S 1 1  7: how can we move into negotiations without a leader
: I'm quite serious.
supersoulty: I agree, let's not grandstand.  But verin should sign the papers, none the less
M A S 1 1  7: we invade
M A S 1 1  7: take them over
emsworth04: no
: None of the people involved is wanting to start trouble.
supersoulty: I think we should just ignore them
: Does anyone have a list?
M A S 1 1  7: how about this
the life of Q: perhaps an announcement of official policy towards recognition, or lack therof, regarding registration in this "west atlasia" would dissuade them, as well as stop more people from joining
M A S 1 1  7: i have an idea
emsworth04: i have already pmed the main leaders (aflteich, danielx, and cheesewhiz) several times
supersoulty: It won't be fun soon and they will come back
M A S 1 1  7: its so simple
supersoulty: They want attention
M A S 1 1  7: listen
ilikeverin: off the top of my head: Clay, DanielX, CheeseWhiz, Aflteich
ilikeverin: Everett
M A S 1 1  7: they claimed to have a formed an independent nation
M A S 1 1  7: therefore
M A S 1 1  7: they are no longer allowed to post there business on the atlas forum
M A S 1 1  7: get ford in here
ilikeverin: WHAT?
: Ford does not have IM and you need to stop talking.
ilikeverin: you must be insane
supersoulty: Ford won't accept that
: Can anyone honestly say they are threatened by Clay, DanielX, CheeseWhiz, Aflietch, and Everett?
ilikeverin: they have every right to stay members of the Forum
supersoulty: Ford wants a moderate approach
supersoulty: He PMed me about it
: Individually or as a group?
ilikeverin: well, libertarians give me the heebie jeebies, but other than that no
the life of Q: ILV and Alcon, have you decided on a policy regarding these rogue registrations?
emsworth04: the point is not that anyone is afraid. the point is that this leads to disorder and chaos
: I'm no longer DSoFA...so that's not mine to decide.
emsworth04: the ultimate breakdown of the whole system is threatened if we allow people to just leave anytime they wish
supersoulty: I agree with Emsworth
ilikeverin: I think I might count them as state changes, as a way to increase population of the Midwest :-P
: So, ignore the registrations.
: Keep their old registrations.
supersoulty: As much as I hate this constant BS, we can't react to it in a rash way
M A S 1 1  7: i say we disband the government
M A S 1 1  7: start over
M A S 1 1  7: new elections all around
: Why?

[12th Doctor]

alconvsc: These are interpersonal problems.
alconvsc: Not governmental problems.
emsworth04: abolishing the government is not an option at this stage
ilikeverin: I say we form Atlasia 2.0 with more national diplomacy and stuff, and keep this Atlasia as it's going now
M A S 1 1  7: theres a huge governmental problem
M A S 1 1  7: its just emsworth is not appealing it
alconvsc: Which is,  MAS?
M A S 1 1  7: this election
M A S 1 1  7: every election
supersoulty: No, stop talking about options we don't have right now
M A S 1 1  7: after every election there is chaos
M A S 1 1  7: this si the biggest one
supersoulty: Let's just focus on the problem.
alconvsc: The DoFA needs to be fixed, but that's not as huge as it's made out to be.
emsworth04: we are not discussing how to deal with the governmental problem. we are just seven people, with no right to decide how to change the government. i have called all of you here to help advise me on the secession crisis, and that's all
alconvsc: A lot of our problems would be solved with the construction of a results-counting program.
M A S 1 1  7: ew should be advising u as president
M A S 1 1  7: i dont understand why verin wont sign
alconvsc: Motion to jab MAS in the stomach
alconvsc: Seconded?
ilikeverin: seconded
the life of Q: seconded
supersoulty: third
alconvsc: All in favour, say aye.
alconvsc: Aye.
supersoulty: Sorry, buddy
M A S 1 1  7: aye
emsworth04: let us keep the issue of my title to one side for now, and focus on the real, actual problem before us
the life of Q: aye
ilikeverin: aye
supersoulty: aye
M A S 1 1  7: how to deal with the midwest
alconvsc: By a vote of 9,754,235-0, this motion is passed.  MAS will be executed.
M A S 1 1  7: they are not going to come back on there own
emsworth04: correct
the life of Q: so there are 7 people involved in the secession
supersoulty: Okay, first, I'll retract my resignation.  It is creating a snowballing effect
alconvsc: Why don't you think they will come back on their own?
M A S 1 1  7: nope
emsworth04: i have pleaded with three of them, and all but aflteich have proved very obstinate
M A S 1 1  7: aflteich is new
the life of Q: when did he even become involved?
ilikeverin: that's because it's fun right now
ilikeverin: personally, I'd be having a lot more fun if I was a revolutionary right now
the life of Q: but it's making it very unpleasant for everyone else
emsworth04: precisely
supersoulty: Just ignore them
the life of Q: why can't they be ignored?
M A S 1 1  7: then resign and move to the midwest ;-)
emsworth04: will that work? i don't know
the life of Q: i am thinking of quitting myself
M A S 1 1  7: it wont
emsworth04: ignoring them, I mean
supersoulty: YEs
supersoulty: They like the attention
M A S 1 1  7: i dont think it will solve the problem
ilikeverin: because right now I'd be bad for me to resign right now
supersoulty: Let's bury the thread.
M A S 1 1  7: u cant just ignore them
supersoulty: Pretend it isn;t happening
the life of Q: it's only perhaps 3 people of importance
emsworth04: it isn't just us who should ignore them, it is everyone
emsworth04: i don't know if we can ensure that
ilikeverin: no, so there must be another way
emsworth04: have you tried speaking to cheesewhiz, ilv? I know that you are a good friend of his
the life of Q: can some of us move to the midwest?
ilikeverin: no, there's not much to say
the life of Q: there's an open senate seat as a prize
supersoulty: Let's shut down the government, then.  Have Dave lock the folders.  Hold it for a few days until we can talk this out
ilikeverin: because, quite frankly, I sympathies with their cause, though I think we should still reconcile
supersoulty: Verin, it's not about that
alconvsc: Dave may very well take a day or two
alconvsc: Or a week.
emsworth04: the cause of reform, ilv, is not the cause of the midwestern revolutionaries alone. it is all of our causes
supersoulty: We all support this cause
the life of Q: it's all being led by someone who's never even been active in Atlasia before
ilikeverin: yes
M A S 1 1  7: we dont need to bring dave into this
ilikeverin: since we both support reform, let's stop discussing it
ilikeverin: what other issues are there?
the life of Q: the illegitimate nature of the movement should be stressed
supersoulty: Well, then someone better put something on the table
the life of Q: yes, how the registration issue will be handled
supersoulty: If ignoring them won't work, then we need a real solution
M A S 1 1  7: it wont
emsworth04: i will, as a gesture of goodwill, order the withdrawal of imaginary troops from the border, if that is okay with all of you
htmldon has entered the room.
ilikeverin: okie dokie
M A S 1 1  7: no
emsworth04: welcome, don; we are discussing measures we could take to deal with the midwest secession crisis
M A S 1 1  7: leave them
M A S 1 1  7: until we figure something out
emsworth04: why?
supersoulty: If placing imaginary troops on the boarder isn't going to change their minds, will removing them?
M A S 1 1  7: then ill withdraw
M A S 1 1  7: cheese is scared
ilikeverin: no, the point is the imaginary armies have no point
M A S 1 1  7: let me talk to him
supersoulty: No NO NOOO
supersoulty: Every action taken by this government from this point on must be united, with a sigular purpose
M A S 1 1  7: hes scared of the troops
ilikeverin: uh
ilikeverin: riiiiiight
emsworth04: that's absurd
supersoulty: Emsworth is the only one, from this point on, who can speak for this government
alconvsc: Somehow I do not think bullying Cheesewhiz is going to do anything other than bother Cheesewhiz.
ilikeverin: I think the 'troops' are more scared of 'gay gas'
M A S 1 1  7: im not going to bully him
ilikeverin: but what if other people have to take action?
supersoulty: I move to vote that Emsworth is the only one authorized to speak for the government from this point on.
supersoulty: All in favor, say Aye
ilikeverin: being egocentric, the example I'll use is invalidating votes
supersoulty: In an official capacity, I mean
htmldon: Where is the court?
htmldon: We need a President first
alconvsc: I do not think Esmsworth should be speaking as President until he is actually sworn in...
alconvsc: Because he's kind of not in the government before that point.

[12th Doctor]

emsworth04: a majority of the cabinet must approve in order for me to take over as acting president
supersoulty: Where is Siege?
supersoulty: No where.
ilikeverin: and I'm being a stubborn ass
htmldon: I think this "secession" stuff will calm down once we have determined that we will A) have a President and B) will do something to re-fun the sim
ilikeverin: =-O I swore
supersoulty: Emsworth is the de facto President now
M A S 1 1  7: u r
M A S 1 1  7: de facto is not good enough
M A S 1 1  7: i dont understand why u wont sign ilv
ilikeverin: because you're bothering me about it
emsworth04: very good, then, we shall ask wms
ilikeverin: okie dokie
M A S 1 1  7: is he on
emsworth04: yes
emsworth04: wisemanslayn
alconvsc: Wow, I wasn't aware he ever used that account.
ilikeverin: we should invite him to this room
ilikeverin: I wasn't aware he had one :-(
M A S 1 1  7: i dont think hes on aim
emsworth04: hmm, he's on the forum
emsworth04: i'll pm him
M A S 1 1  7: hes not on iam
emsworth04: i've sent a pm, he should respond soon
emsworth04: do you have any objection, ilv, to me becoming acting president?
ilikeverin: no, not particularly
M A S 1 1  7: obviously he does
M A S 1 1  7: because he wont sign
ilikeverin: now that you've conceded
M A S 1 1  7: he conceded this afternoon
ilikeverin: yes
ilikeverin: and since then you've been badgering me to sign
ilikeverin: but
ilikeverin: back to the original point
AlphaZeta564 has entered the room.
ilikeverin: the midwest.
supersoulty: Stop bickering
AlphaZeta564: gentlemen
M A S 1 1  7: so your not going to sing
alconvsc: Verin is not going to sing?
M A S 1 1  7: sign
alconvsc: Imagine my disappointment.
ilikeverin: I play trombone :-(
alconvsc: I am sure you have a lovely voice, Verin.
ilikeverin: no
ilikeverin: hence
ilikeverin: trombone playing :-)
AlphaZeta564: a friend of mine started the trombone club at my school. 
emsworth04: defarge, we are at present considering our options with respect to the midwest crisis
supersoulty: Let's get serious here folks
alconvsc: Emsworth (we hvae to get you a shorter nickname) Defarge wants to know your AIM on the board
AlphaZeta564: the posters said "my instrument is longer than yours"
alconvsc: Oh...late as always.
emsworth04: have you any advice, defarge?
AlphaZeta564: no advice, i'm convinced it will blow over within the week
M A S 1 1  7: whats cheeses screen name
M A S 1 1  7: cheeseyoda?
AlphaZeta564: this is people just poking fun at the chaotic situation
ilikeverin: and if it doesn't...?
alconvsc: Cheese is not on.
ilikeverin: we should establish a backup plan just in case
AlphaZeta564: then General MAS117 will be leading the glorious armies of the republic into the midwest
emsworth04: that would solve nothing
emsworth04: it would just cause more animosity
M A S 1 1  7: it would solve the secessionist crisis :-D
pdc90dem has entered the room.
alconvsc: I am amused by the idea of declaring war on South Dakota...but no.
supersoulty: Ignore them
alconvsc: Unlike real life, we lack guns on the Forum, MAS.
supersoulty: I stick by that
AlphaZeta564: it's people just having fun, it's nothing serious
htmldon: Agreed
ilikeverin: I know I won't recognize their new registrations in West Atlasia
alconvsc: I could not agree with Defarge less
alconvsc: more*
wisemanslayn has entered the room.
M A S 1 1  7: WMS!
ilikeverin: though I'm tempted to recognize their new states
wisemanslayn: Yep, it's me!
ilikeverin: =-O
the life of Q: and therefore they will not be able to vote in Atlasia for 4 months
ilikeverin:
ilikeverin: anime smiley mode
ilikeverin:
alconvsc: Hey WMS.  How are you?
AlphaZeta564: an invasion would actually be quite amusing
pdc90dem: Does the constitution actually give the Senate the power to appoint a new President?
M A S 1 1  7: wms have u signed the petition from super?
AlphaZeta564: i look forward to personally leading troops at the front :-)
wisemanslayn: Doing OK - busy as hell with school, but...
M A S 1 1  7: thank u defarge
M A S 1 1  7: no
M A S 1 1  7: whos pdc
ilikeverin: read KoD yet?
ilikeverin: stuff happens :-D
wisemanslayn: To MAS: is this still going on?
pdc90dem: I'm Cosmo Kramer
M A S 1 1  7: ah ok
alconvsc: PDC is Cosmo Kramer.
M A S 1 1  7: yes
wisemanslayn: ILV: YEp, read it through! WOOT! EVENTS!
alconvsc: Preston - this is tangential - but is that your real name?
emsworth04: a majority of the Cabinet may make the VP Acting President, Preston
pdc90dem: yes
M A S 1 1  7: everyone in here wants emsworth to take over but verin
pdc90dem: Preston David Kramer
alconvsc: You have the perfect politician name.
wisemanslayn: Ah, so it's legal, eh?
pdc90dem: cool, really?
alconvsc: Totally.
M A S 1 1  7: of course
AlphaZeta564: i think Joe Republic and I would fully support emergency powers for vice-president palpatine here
supersoulty: It is legal, yes
alconvsc: Both Preston and Kramer are also cities in Idaho - I just thought you'd like to know that.
ilikeverin: and I'm just not signing because MAS is goading me
pdc90dem: ok
emsworth04: ilv, unanimous backing by the cabinet might be important in a situation such as this
ilikeverin: fine, fine
ilikeverin: *mutters*
AlphaZeta564: can't agree more, government stability, more than anything else, will end the secession
wisemanslayn: Perhaps I should get around to that then...emsworth, this IS what yo wanted me to get on aim about, right?
supersoulty: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=30661.new;boardseen#new
emsworth04: wms--it was actually about the secession crisis in general
wisemanslayn: Ah, got it.
emsworth04: we were trying to determine what the best approach would be

[Everett]

This is hilarious. Good bedtime reading material.

[12th Doctor]

emsworth04: the problem is that they are insisting on full independence during negotiations--and i cannot agree to that
M A S 1 1  7: ok Mr. President
M A S 1 1  7: we need some real possibilities here
AlphaZeta564: a senate vote of confidence could prove useful, could you bump such a bill to the top of the agenda emsworth?
ilikeverin: first of all: do we believe they will just die out of their own accord?
AlphaZeta564: yes
the life of Q: would a vote of confidence be achieved?
emsworth04: not in such short time, i'm afraid
emsworth04: though an informal petition could be signed by people on the main forum
alconvsc: I think that most of them will just keep voting like citizens and are just having fun.
alconvsc: We didn't penalize King for any of his stupid "let's move to places that don't exist!" things.
AlphaZeta564: alright, members of each the campaigns putting it out would work fine
AlphaZeta564: *campaigns
supersoulty: WMS, will you sign it?
emsworth04: alcon--there have actually been serious proposals to split us up into two countries (as indicated in PMs)
wisemanslayn: Sure. BRB...
pdc90dem: Where exactly in the constitution does it give the Senate power to appoint a new President.  Impeachment requires popular consent by Atlasia as a whole.
pdc90dem: ?
M A S 1 1  7: preston
M A S 1 1  7: what are u talking about
M A S 1 1  7: emsworth is now acting president
ilikeverin: we're not impeaching anyone...
AlphaZeta564: it's a temporary measure
M A S 1 1  7: well verin maybe later on ;-)
AlphaZeta564: with an inactive president, we need a leader who actually has power
M A S 1 1  7: =-O
ilikeverin: blah
emsworth04: Article II, Sec. 3, cl. 5
emsworth04: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Article_II_of_the_Second_Constitution
pdc90dem: ok, I see it
M A S 1 1  7:  even frodo signed lol
M A S 1 1  7: ive been in here for an hour without real progress
pdc90dem: Is the Senate going to declare war on Canada?
AlphaZeta564: may as well
wisemanslayn: Signed, BTW.
AlphaZeta564: we need breathing space!
the life of Q: The secession thread is entitled "Midwest Secession" -- it should be emphasized that this is not the secession of one of Atlasia's regions, but the rogue actions of just a few individuals.
emsworth04: good point
the life of Q: (Who will not be allowed to vote in Atlasia for 4 months now.)
AlphaZeta564: honestly, who is it except everett and danielX?
ilikeverin: CheeseWhiz
M A S 1 1  7: cheese
ilikeverin: Clay
AlphaZeta564: and cheesewhiz
emsworth04: and afl
supersoulty: I don't like this
supersoulty: We will be clearing out a whole region of the country.
emsworth04: yes, a majority of midwesterners are in support
supersoulty: People will just leave.
supersoulty: We barely have enough people as is.
the life of Q: well, what is it they want?
ilikeverin: let alone in the Midwest region
supersoulty: Attention
M A S 1 1  7: tell them to take i tot a new forum then
the life of Q: the midwest can be repopulated
supersoulty: We shouldn't have given it to them in the first place.
supersoulty: I take full responsibility for that.
AlphaZeta564: it mostly seems to be in protest of the conduct of the election
pdc90dem: We should eliminate the Midwest region
the life of Q: i was thinking of moving there even before this election, so that i could be the only one in a state.  but they all now have people, it seems
ilikeverin: not this again
AlphaZeta564: a harsh reconstruction will make things personal when it's mostly just for fun
supersoulty: But we all oppose the conduct of the election
pdc90dem: We should create a Northwest Region and Southwest Region
pdc90dem: By dividing the Pacific Region in two as well
supersoulty: No
emsworth04: the midwesterners can (i apologize for being blunt) stop flashing their petty little consciences around. none of us are happy about the current situation--it's not just them
the life of Q: yes
AlphaZeta564: once stability returns to the government, this will be over
pdc90dem: I hope so
AlphaZeta564: as a government we must present a united front
supersoulty: Give it time.  This will end soon
M A S 1 1  7: emsworth should make a thread
supersoulty: Exactly
emsworth04: a thread about what?
supersoulty: Do your best to calm the situation
M A S 1 1  7: stating the consequences of there actions, and that they can gain them back by disbanding now
AlphaZeta564: while i am loathe to start major reforms until someone takes office, the senate should begin debate as to what to do
supersoulty: We need to be unified
pdc90dem: I will volunteer my services for the Atlasian Army
supersoulty: Like I said earlier:  one voice, one action
M A S 1 1  7: q u in your dorm by any chance :-D
pdc90dem: I have some knowledge in military tactics and strategy
AlphaZeta564: we must, for lack of a better word, get off our asses as a government and start doing something
supersoulty: No military
pdc90dem: ok
emsworth04: i've already posted a thread, and that has been ignored by the midwest
emsworth04: they have refused a reasonable offer
pdc90dem: Listen
M A S 1 1  7: now your president
M A S 1 1  7: make it known your president
pdc90dem: They don't care
M A S 1 1  7: this is not an appeal to them
pdc90dem: They're mostly just bored and want to start a war for the hell of it
M A S 1 1  7: its telling them what’s going to happen
ilikeverin: no
pdc90dem: reason won't work
supersoulty: Why should they care if we use the military
ilikeverin: they don't want to start a war
supersoulty: On the contrary, it will just bring more attention to them
supersoulty: That's what they want
AlphaZeta564: ok, i am going to post some kind of manifesto giving emsworth our full support as president
emsworth04: very well, then
AlphaZeta564: a member of each campaign signing it would be great
AlphaZeta564: super, and don, you ok with this?
supersoulty: Okay
emsworth04: alright, then aside from this, is there any concrete action that you would suggest? should i give another speech?
M A S 1 1  7: military
M A S 1 1  7: yes
ilikeverin: no military
AlphaZeta564: we need to get the senate addressing voting reform right now
supersoulty: Agreed
supersoulty: We can rush a bill through
M A S 1 1  7: make it clear that joe has won the election
supersoulty: Yes
emsworth04: i've already done that
M A S 1 1  7: appoint a new sofa, a new atty gen
AlphaZeta564: people are still congratulating me for becoming president
supersoulty: NO

[KEmperor]

LOL, so Emsworth and Super are the voice of reason, and MAS wants to bomb everyone.

[12th Doctor]

M A S 1 1  7: withdraw troops
supersoulty: Verin stays
Gabumon98: I'm currently working on a bill that implements the ideas I proposed in that topic I made in the Fantasy Elections board.
ilikeverin: a new SoFA? :-(
M A S 1 1  7: yes
emsworth04: no
supersoulty: No
M A S 1 1  7: people need to know that the govt is back up
emsworth04: no time for confirmations, and i wouldn't want to fire him anyway
AlphaZeta564: good, we'll rush it through the senate
ilikeverin: anyhoo
wisemanslayn: Gabu, I like your ideas and hope they pass.
ilikeverin: I like your voting system, Gabu.  much more simple :-)
supersoulty: Fireing people is just going to show that we are in disarray
emsworth04: the problem is that if we rush something true, we might overlook an even bigger problem
supersoulty: True
AlphaZeta564: true
AlphaZeta564: but we can always amend it
supersoulty: No
emsworth04: like we can amend current legislation?
ilikeverin: yes, that.  and we can add more
pdc90dem: I have a constitutional amendment I need a Senator to propose
M A S 1 1  7: it will show that the government is back on its feet
the life of Q: what is it?
supersoulty: Too much amending and not enough initial prep is one of our biggest problem
supersoulty: s
AlphaZeta564: keeping atlasia together it our biggest problem
ilikeverin: ^
AlphaZeta564: *is
supersoulty: Mr. President, do you have any thoughts?
supersoulty: An idea?
AlphaZeta564: do i think it's wise to rush through voting reform? absolutely not.  but we must give the impression that the government is stable, and actively attempting to address the problem
supersoulty: Anything?
emsworth04: my plan is as follows: at present, I will give a final opportunity to reunify, and open discussion of reform. if that does not work, then I will suggest that the rebels be ignored
pdc90dem: The suffrage of any Atlasian citizen, who has fulfilled necessary post requirements as laid out by this constitution, shall not be denied due to technicalities or petty details.
supersoulty: What if we rush a resolution through stating that voting reform will be the top agenda of the next congress?
supersoulty: That we will dead lock all other voting until we have it?
the life of Q: technicalities?
the life of Q: what would that be?
supersoulty: Too vague
emsworth04: a sense of the Senate resolution is a good idea
pdc90dem: avatars, signatures, editing ballots
the life of Q: posting after the midnight deadline?
the life of Q: like 12:01 AM?
pdc90dem: oh, I forgot part of it
ilikeverin: editing ballots?!?
the life of Q: a resolution is definitely a good idea
the life of Q: (promoting voting reform)
AlphaZeta564: i agree
supersoulty: I think we need to pass a resolution to take this up as a national priority, but we can't ram something through now
emsworth04: very well then, I'll start the resolution now
supersoulty: We'll regret it later
supersoulty: ok
M A S 1 1  7: people need to know that JOE is the winner of the election by default
emsworth04: they know--i've already posted it
supersoulty: The resolution will declare Joe the winner, as well
supersoulty: It is not official, but Senate resolutions are not binding after all
AlphaZeta564: atlasia still remains confused, naming the thread a "presidential address" would work wonders emsworth
emsworth04: alright, I will make such a speech
pdc90dem: The suffrage of any Atlasian citizen, who has fufilled necesary post requirements as laid out by this constitution, shall not be denied due to technicalities or petty details.
pdc90dem: And, the right for every Atlasian's vote to be counted fairly shall not be abridged in each case in which the voter's intent is deemed clear.
M A S 1 1  7: and getting rid of perferecne voting
AlphaZeta564: we will follow it quickly by a petition of support
AlphaZeta564: with members of all the national tickets
supersoulty: Okay
emsworth04: give me five minutes or so to write it
pdc90dem: what do ya'll think of the newest version?
supersoulty: Remember to declare in the resolution that Joe is the winner and the Senate offically recongnizes this to be so
supersoulty: Like I said, it is meaningless, but it makes a statement
pdc90dem: Well I want it to be broad and far-reaching
pdc90dem: That's the point of it
ilikeverin: I think it's scary
ilikeverin: but that's just m
ilikeverin: me*
ilikeverin: oops
ilikeverin: unless Preston is talking about the Joe resolution
ilikeverin: which is not scary
the life of Q: the technicalities section, though
the life of Q: could cause even more problems
AlphaZeta564: alright, so we have a course of action.  anything else gentlemen?
pdc90dem: how's that?
pdc90dem: I excluded post requirements
supersoulty: Preston, we decided on something while you were gone.  
the life of Q: then the election will be contested not over whether a vote meets a requirement, but whether that requirement is a "technicality"
pdc90dem: The only requirement I see as important is post requirements
M A S 1 1  7: have we decdied anything on midwst
emsworth04: yes, a resolution of the senate will be passed
pdc90dem: leave them alone
pdc90dem: see how they respond
AlphaZeta564: We, the undersigned, including members of four of the national tickets, do hereby declare our support for President Emsworth during this time of crisis.  
AlphaZeta564: ya'll ok with that?
pdc90dem: The problem is Dubya
pdc90dem: He moved to Kansas to join the resistence
AlphaZeta564: we can get don to sign it
the life of Q: can this resolution be sent to the senators and others here before it is posted?
emsworth04: yes
emsworth04: 1. The Senate hereby acknowledges that the ticket of Joe Republic and Defarge won the presidential election held from 21-23 October.
emsworth04: 2. The Senate hereby acknowledges that complicated electoral procedures have led to the disenfranchisement of voters, and have caused the result to be called into doubt.
emsworth04: 3. Therefore, the Senate acknowledges the importance of voting reform, and agrees to undertake reform bills at the beginning of the new session.
emsworth04: comments?
ilikeverin: looks good
pdc90dem: We need an official count
wisemanslayn: Cool.
pdc90dem: Of the Presidential Election
ilikeverin: I personally favor my count
pdc90dem: You can use my count
pdc90dem: I had Joe winning in mine
AlphaZeta564: excellent
AlphaZeta564: introduce it now and you'll have it passed by tomorrow
ilikeverin: but mine is hand counted, and has who voted for whom!
ilikeverin: so it's fancy
emsworth04: okay, i'll treat it as a petition
the life of Q: i would not be confident that senator Ebowed would vote for this
supersoulty: Hmmm... If an emergency session of congress there will be.  Allow us to get into the Jedi Temple it will

[12th Doctor]

pdc90dem: guys, we can't just proclaim Joe President.  I personally support him but we need an official count to back it up.
emsworth04: okay, then
ilikeverin: what is wrong with my count?
emsworth04: some have called it into question (though that's not the point now)
pdc90dem: you give Joe the victory in yours?
supersoulty: No, we aren't "proclaiming" him President.  He won the election.  The Seante is merely affirming those results
ilikeverin: yes...
supersoulty: Like I said, it is a moral gesture
pdc90dem: where is it?
AlphaZeta564: the senate is expressing confidence in the count of the SoFA
supersoulty: No power behind it
pdc90dem: ah, I see
pdc90dem: buried by all the seccession threads
emsworth04: how about, "The Senate hereby acknowledges that Joe Republic has been duly certified as the winner of the presidential election." ?
supersoulty: Ok
AlphaZeta564: needlessly complicated, the original is fine
the life of Q: the second is what we are affirming
supersoulty: Whatever, just get it out there before people start logging off for the night
the life of Q: that is what the senate has the power to do
emsworth04: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=30680.0
AlphaZeta564: no need for debate?
emsworth04: it's just an informal resolution requiring signatures of the senators
emsworth04: no binding effect whatsoever
AlphaZeta564: excellent
supersoulty: Now, the petition from the tickets
pdc90dem: There's an error in Ilikeverin's count
pdc90dem: A major one
ilikeverin: really?
pdc90dem: King's vote
AlphaZeta564: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=30681.0
AlphaZeta564: ... wha?
pdc90dem: His preference after Jesus was Emsworth
pdc90dem: not Joe
ilikeverin: really?
emsworth04: yes
pdc90dem: that changes the whole thing
AlphaZeta564: ...
emsworth04: but it doesn't change the final result
pdc90dem: yes it does
ilikeverin: yes it does, actually
pdc90dem: he get's eliminate
pdc90dem: d
ilikeverin: :?
emsworth04: how so?
pdc90dem: he has 14
ilikeverin: 3rd round
ilikeverin: 3 way tie
AlphaZeta564: that puts joe behind before the tie
pdc90dem: yep
supersoulty: Wow
pdc90dem: The whole of the result is changed
emsworth04: aaahhhhhh
AlphaZeta564: verin, can you do an election recount from scratch?
supersoulty: How did we not spot this?
ilikeverin: oh dear
pdc90dem: Here's how you can change it
ilikeverin: after I did that from scratch?
pdc90dem: :
emsworth04: there's another mistake somewhere else, I'm sure
pdc90dem: Count Nation and TheFactors vote for the official ticket
AlphaZeta564: alright, we need to start all over again
pdc90dem: That gives Joe the victory, I think
ilikeverin: and, right on key after something important happens
M A S 1 1  7: lets hold off any recount
ilikeverin: I have to get off
ilikeverin: perhaps you can not certify mine as the official count?
ilikeverin: or maybe we should wait for the court to rule?
M A S 1 1  7: we should remove true idiot from the voter roles for being the worst sofa ever
pdc90dem: You can certify my count
emsworth04: should i delete the senate resolution?
ilikeverin: I'm unsure
AlphaZeta564: not yet
pdc90dem: It counts Nations' and the TheFactors' vote and gives Joe victory
ilikeverin: but... good luck.  try certifying Preston's vote.  that may work
AlphaZeta564: honestly, we need to do an election recount from scratch
ilikeverin: note 'may'
ilikeverin: perhaps form a commission ;-)
ilikeverin has left the room.
AlphaZeta564: oh sweet lord
AlphaZeta564: who is next in line in terms of certifying elections after the deputy SoFA?
wisemanslayn: Ah, it wouldn't be Atlasia without trouble. 8-)
pdc90dem: Here's mine:
pdc90dem: never mind
M A S 1 1  7: the court I guess defarge
pdc90dem: It won't display properly on here
emsworth04: everyone, let us please stick with the certification of Joe as President... that seems to be the unanimous opinion of the forum as well
alconvsc: Back.
AlphaZeta564: i honestly don't agree, the will of the people is more important than our conveniance
M A S 1 1  7: not from me but ok
the life of Q: are we sure that an accurate count will bear that out?
AlphaZeta564: alcon
M A S 1 1  7: mr president
supersoulty: I agree Mr. President.  A gutsy move.
M A S 1 1  7: do u honestly think that boss tweeds vote is valid
pdc90dem: Ilikeverin's count is wrong, Alcon
AlphaZeta564: it appears that our count is completely wrong, can you check?
emsworth04: when I last checked, Joe Republic would have been elected President if Tweed's vote were valid
AlphaZeta564: was that using your own count?
emsworth04: yes
pdc90dem: Let's count his vote, then
pdc90dem: hopefully that will give Joe the edge
emsworth04: well, preston, I think it's already been decided that Tweed's vote should count
emsworth04: that was the basis of ILV's certificate
pdc90dem: oh
pdc90dem: so we need something else changed
emsworth04: why? it declares joe the winner
pdc90dem: Like I said, counting theFactor and Nation's vote would change it I think
emsworth04: no, Joe is the winner of Tweed's vote is counted, and Tweed's vote has been counted
AlphaZeta564: did we ever determine whether there's really a precedent for disqualifying ballots because there's no VP?
emsworth04: yes--last election
emsworth04: quite a few were disqualified, I believe
pdc90dem: Ilikeverin's count is off.  It counted Kings preference after Jesus as Joe.  It should have been Emsworth
emsworth04: that doesn't change the end result, though
pdc90dem: Yes it does
emsworth04: not if Tweed's vote is counted (as it has been)
pdc90dem: Was it counted in Ilikeverin's count?
emsworth04: yes, I believe
pdc90dem: then it doesn't help us
pdc90dem: I'm going off of his count
pdc90dem: And subtracting one from Joe
M A S 1 1  7: is tweeds vote really invalid
AlphaZeta564: on verin's count, tweed is included
M A S 1 1  7: yes or no
alconvsc: Yes.
AlphaZeta564: subtract one from joe, joe gets eliminated
M A S 1 1  7: u included him but is he really eligible
pdc90dem: Yes

[12th Doctor]

alconvsc: Yes.
M A S 1 1  7: why
alconvsc: He attempted to vote.
alconvsc: Precedent has always counted that as non-asterisking.
pdc90dem: So we need more than Tweed to give Joe victory
M A S 1 1  7: to tell u the truth i really would like to sue to government
alconvsc: Then shut up and do so.
the life of Q: if all 3 disputed votes are included, and King's is fixed, then what do we have?
AlphaZeta564: joe wins
supersoulty: No one is suing anyone
pdc90dem: yes
AlphaZeta564: but if only tweed's is counted, joe does not win
pdc90dem: That is what I did in my count
pdc90dem: And Joe won
wisemanslayn: Question: I noticed some voters didn't write-in VP candidates on the part of the ballot when they voted for King, as in, they wrote "King/Write-In VP". Is this important?
emsworth04: wait, everyone, I'm almost 100% confident that there is an error somewhere... let me check the original voting booth
pdc90dem: let's just start over and see what we get
alconvsc: WMS:  It invalidates their inclusion.
alconvsc: Invalid VP
alconvsc: Also, remember that write-ins must be counted.
alconvsc: That matters in who is eliminated in the first round.
alconvsc: As long as both are registered voters.
wisemanslayn: Alcon: for that preference or for their entire vote?
emsworth04: ILikeVerin forgot to include his own vote for Joe Republic in the certificate. Had he included it, Joe would have 15 (+1 for ILV, -1 for King)
alconvsc: If a ballot is like this:  1. Joe Republic/PD, 2. Joe Republic/Esmsworth, 3. Emsworth/Q
supersoulty: In the past, one error has invalidated an entire ballot
alconvsc: Then the first won't be counted but the second will
alconvsc: An invalid preference has never invalidated the entire ballot.
wisemanslayn: Ah, got it.
AlphaZeta564: ok, so then the results remain the same
emsworth04: yes, thankfully
alconvsc: Joe won?
alconvsc: Or Emsworth?
emsworth04: Joe
pdc90dem: It depends
AlphaZeta564: joe
pdc90dem: Joe, if we count the invalidated votes
AlphaZeta564: no, joe still wins
emsworth04: preston, ILikeVerin forgot to include his own vote for Joe Republic in the certificate
AlphaZeta564: cause verin forgot to include his own vote
pdc90dem: oh
pdc90dem: wow, that is a lot of errors
emsworth04: yes, that is true
pdc90dem: incredible
alconvsc: I got the impression that Verin rushed.
supersoulty: Someone needs to save this conversation, for the record.
pdc90dem: The problem is our federal government appointing to many good politicians and not enough good administrators to cabinet positions
pdc90dem: Supersoulty being an exception, of course
alconvsc: SoFA should be filled by the most competent person.
alconvsc: It's the most demanding position.
supersoulty: Thank you, but I would say that everyone here has conducted themselves very well.
supersoulty: SoFA should be the most demanding and least rewarding position
pdc90dem: Except Ilikeverin, frankly
AlphaZeta564: alcon, would you be willing to be SoFA?
supersoulty: That way it goes to someone who really wants it
alconvsc: I...maybe.
alconvsc: If people think I'm competent enough.
pdc90dem: sure
pdc90dem: you'd be great
the life of Q: I certainly do.
wisemanslayn: DO IT! Go Alcon! :-)
supersoulty: I do
alconvsc: I appreciate that.
AlphaZeta564: of course you're competent enough
pdc90dem: Let's see if Ilikeverin will resign
the life of Q: So a complete and accurate recount will affirm the election outcome (not the vote totals, but the winners)?
AlphaZeta564: yes
pdc90dem: we don't have enough time for an impeachment
AlphaZeta564: it's spring cleaning soon regardless
AlphaZeta564: i gtg, 'night gentlemen
AlphaZeta564 has left the room.
pdc90dem: well anyway.........Senators, Mr. Acting President, Secretaries, and concerned citizens, please get this straightened out.  I'm going to bed.
pdc90dem: bye
pdc90dem has left the room.
M A S 1 1  7: bye
M A S 1 1  7: what about the midwest
alconvsc: MAS apparently you talk about whatever we're not talking about
M A S 1 1  7: lol sry
M A S 1 1  7: thats what this chat is suppose to be about
M A S 1 1  7: so really your off task!
supersoulty: No, the resolution and time to think will cure this problem
supersoulty: We are more on topic than ever
supersoulty: Personally, I am impressed with what we have all been able to achieve.
emsworth04: thank you all for your advice
supersoulty: If only we could cooperate like this more often
supersoulty: Thank you fro your leadership, Mr. President
alconvsc: You did the honourable thing, Emsworth.
supersoulty: This is the first time, in a long time, it has felt like we have a real President in the Oval Office.

[Frodo]

The real negotiations will not begin until DanielX, Afleitch, and Cheesewhiz get in on the action here.

[TomC]

Get Cheesewhiz to lock the thread and let it fall- either perm. or temp

[The Duke]

I've never regretted anything I've ever done on the Forum more than my acquiesence of MAS117 becoming Secretary of Defense.  Tepid as it may have been, a lot of people myself included put a self-aggrandizing buffoon in charge of the military.

As for my own limited role in all of this, yes I did PM Supersoulty and have urged a moderate approach that will let tempers die down and hopefully bring about a resolution that all can agree on.  I think the secessionists are reasonable people who are simply acting out their frustrations at the system.  But they don't have any solutions, and they'll learn that soon enough.  When they do, they'll come and patch things back up, and we should be open to that result, if it comes.

They'll tire of these antics, as all before them have.  And the country will internalize what has happenned also, and make the reasonable changes that will prevent this from happenning again.

[Frodo]

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What the f ck is that supposed to mean, you twit?

[Platypus]

funny

[MAS117]

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What the f ck is that supposed to mean, you twit?

It was for signatures of cabinet members, you twit, and as far as I know your not in the cabinet.

[J. J.]

Does anybody wonder why I left?

[CheeseWhiz]

Oh, I’m sooo scared of digital troops!  I stopped reading this.  Between Super thinking all we want is attention to MAS wanting to blow us all to kingdom come; I just couldn’t take it anymore.  This just makes me want to leave even more.

[12th Doctor]

I made a minor correction to one part.  There were some lines the were dropped.

[12th Doctor]

I think that all Atlasians can be proud of the actions and conduct of President Emsworth in regard to this matter.  Like I said at the end of the meeting, it really feels like we have a President, again.

[TomC]

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What the f ck is that supposed to mean, you twit?

It was for signatures of cabinet members, you twit, and as far as I know your not in the cabinet.

That was very unclear. It seemed just a general petition for support. The loooong AIM discussions hadn't even been posted yet. I see at least four noncabinet members who signed.

[Max Power]

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And I hope Verin learned his lesson.

[Ebowed]

Sorry I could not make it to the meeting

[MAS117]

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What the f ck is that supposed to mean, you twit?

It was for signatures of cabinet members, you twit, and as far as I know your not in the cabinet.

That was very unclear. It seemed just a general petition for support. The loooong AIM discussions hadn't even been posted yet. I see at least four noncabinet members who signed.

Maybe you couldn't tell the context. ILV didn't want to sign and I said, "hey even frodo signed."