Full succession by a senate elected vice president
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  Full succession by a senate elected vice president
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President Johnson
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« on: October 16, 2018, 02:04:38 PM »

A weird scenario I thought about:

A presidential election ends in a 269-269 deadlock in the Electoral College. At the same time, the House delegations are tied, either 25-25 or 24-24, with two states having a tie as well. After congress reassembles on January 3, the House fails to elect a new president in ballot after ballot. The newly elected senate has a Democratic majority and subsequently elects the Democratic vice presidential candidate as the new vice president. As January 20 nears, the parties struck a deal: Democrats get the presidency, Republicans the vice presidency. However, the Republicans want the elected vice president as president and not the nominee himself. Say because the Democratic VP candidate is more acceptable for the GOP on policy matters. If both the Democratic and the Republican nominee for president accept this deal, that poses some interesting questions:

- Is it even possible that both major nominees "withdraw" from the election by the House?

- If so, does the senate elected vice president (the Democrat) become a full president on January 20? Usually he would be an acting president because no president has been determined by Inauguration Day. But in this case this just doesn't happen since the nominees agree to the deal.

- If this process is through, I assume the Democratic president (or acting president?), who was the VP candidate of course, must nominate the GOP VP candidate through the 25th amendment to become vice president.


Random thought: How it might work is if one elector deflects and votes for the Democratic vice presidential nominee for president (as one from West Virginia did in 1988 by voting for Lloyd Bentsen). Since the House can chose between the three candidates with the most electoral votes, the Democratic vice presidential candidate can directly get elected president by the House. However, if there is no deflection, the scenario above would be the question.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 03:30:57 PM »

While the two parties could agree to remain deadlocked on the Presidential contest in the House, the result would be that the Senate elects a Vice President who serves as Acting President until a President is elected, which would have to be from the top three electoral vote getters. Since the Vice Presidency is filled, the Acting President can't nominate a new Vice President.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 03:31:58 PM »

- Is it even possible that both major nominees "withdraw" from the election by the House?

- If so, does the senate elected vice president (the Democrat) become a full president on January 20? Usually he would be an acting president because no president has been determined by Inauguration Day. But in this case this just doesn't happen since the nominees agree to the deal.

During this time period when the contingent elections would be held/this supposed deal would be struck, succession is covered by the 20th Amendment to the Constitution: if the President-elect dies, the Vice President-elect becomes President-elect; if on Inauguration Day a President-elect hasn't yet been chosen, or if the President-elect fails to qualify, the Vice President-elect becomes Acting President on Inauguration Day until a President-elect is chosen or the President-elect qualifies. Although the amendment doesn't specifically address the issues of disability, disqualification, or resignation/"withdrawal" during this period, its language, "failure to qualify," could arguably be interpreted to cover such contingencies &, as such, would mean that the Vice President-elect (the Democrat who'd been elected by the Senate under this deal) would begin serving as Acting President come Inauguration Day.

- If this process is through, I assume the Democratic president (or acting president?), who was the VP candidate of course, must nominate the GOP VP candidate through the 25th amendment to become vice president.

Here's where this deal gets murky, & fast. Even under the loosest constitutional reading re: "failure to qualify," that Democratic Vice President-elect is only Acting President come Inauguration Day, not a full President. The only way that Vice President/Acting President is becoming a full-on President is if the House elects one of the two presidential candidates & they either A.) die before being sworn into office; or B.) as a formality, resigning from the Presidency immediately upon being sworn in so as to enable the VP to become President.

Now, for whatever reason (say, trust issues or something in that the House doesn't trust either presidential candidate to follow through with the deal & give up the Presidency upon being sworn in), let's say the House just doesn't elect either of the presidential nominees after this deal is struck (even though it's the only way to enable the VP becoming full-on President). That means this whole deal has just fallen apart. That's b/c there wouldn't even be a vacancy in the Vice Presidency for the Democratic VP/Acting President to fill w/ the Republican VP candidate via the 25th Amendment, precisely b/c that Democratic VP/Acting President is still technically the Vice President of the United States (who just happens to simultaneously serving as Acting President & as the de facto President due to this deal having been struck... even though this deal is no longer workable). The only vacancy within this scenario lies in the Presidency, due to the inability of the House to elect one of the two presidential candidates to the Presidency b/c of this "deal".

Random thought: How it might work is if one elector deflects and votes for the Democratic vice presidential nominee for president (as one from West Virginia did in 1988 by voting for Lloyd Bentsen). Since the House can chose between the three candidates with the most electoral votes, the Democratic vice presidential candidate can directly get elected president by the House. However, if there is no deflection, the scenario above would be the question.

If there's no defection, & it's a full-on tie (269-269), this deal doesn't work b/c of everything I pointed out above (unless, of course, this deal (rather than being struck in January as your scenario provides) is struck before the Electoral College votes in December, in which case the Electoral College could either A.) purposely provide for the 1 defection vote for the Democratic VP nominee so as to enable the House to elect the DEM VP to the Presidency come January; or B.) the Electoral College (or, at least, those members of the EC not bound by state law to vote for the presidential nominees themselves) just chooses to straight-out elect the Democratic VP nominee to the Presidency in the presidential vote & the Republican VP nominee to the Vice Presidency in the VP vote).   

If there *is* a defection, however, & the Electoral Vote count is 269 for the GOP, 268 for the Democrats, & 1 for the Democrats' VP nominee, then when this deal is struck come January, the House itself can elect the Democratic VP nominee to the Presidency. If that House election of the Democratic VP nominee occurs before the Senate has elected the same person as VP, then the Senate can then just elect the GOP VP nominee as VP. If the House election occurred after the Senate's already elected the Democratic VP as VP, though, then the Democratic VP would have to wait until January 20th to utilize the 25th Amendment when, upon being sworn in as President, an immediate vacancy arises in the Vice Presidency due to their being nobody to assume the Vice Presidency b/c the VP-elect is also the President-elect.
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J. J.
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 07:37:11 PM »

While the two parties could agree to remain deadlocked on the Presidential contest in the House, the result would be that the Senate elects a Vice President who serves as Acting President until a President is elected, which would have to be from the top three electoral vote getters. Since the Vice Presidency is filled, the Acting President can't nominate a new Vice President.

This was considered very possible in 1968.  Muskie would have been acting president. 
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