Political Tensions Threaten Kyoto

[Bono]

The great poluters of the future don't want to cap their emissions:

Poor nations unready for Kyoto cap: S. Africa

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The United Kingdom wants a bigger emissions quote:

UK begins legal action over CO2 emissions
The UK has started legal action against the European Commission in a bid to get its carbon allowance raised.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

In New Zeeland, some people are starting to realize Kyoto has economic costs:

Kyoto goals not attainable without crushing the economy

You must be logged in to read this quote.

<<Title Spelling - PB>>

[ATFFL]

Some nations seem to be realizing that their anti-American treaty has some local implicatiosn too.

[The Duke]

About time these folks came around.

[Jens]

I wonder what the US CO2 emmision would be if only the average American car had the same as an average European car?

[Platypus]

the problem with Kyoto is it's too fucussed on coal. Europe uses very little coal, but countries like Australia and the US use a heap.

The asia-pacific agreement, whatever it's called, is better for both nations, but is worse for 'the world'. Can't someone find a happy medium?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

How is it anti-American?

[Platypus]

Kyoto? Have a look at what they say must be done. Most of it would negatively effect America signidficantly, but hardly lay a finger on europe. It's more pro-european then anti-american, but either way it's pretty bad for america-and australia.

[Jens]

Kyoto? Have a look at what they say must be done. Most of it would negatively effect America signidficantly, but hardly lay a finger on europe. It's more pro-european then anti-american, but either way it's pretty bad for america-and australia.

In what way is Kyoto more pro-European? And some European countries like Denmark are quite dependent on coal

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A lot of European countries still have a lot of coal-fired power stations; there's one just down the road from where I live.

[ATFFL]

Kyoto? Have a look at what they say must be done. Most of it would negatively effect America signidficantly, but hardly lay a finger on europe. It's more pro-european then anti-american, but either way it's pretty bad for america-and australia.

In what way is Kyoto more pro-European? And some European countries like Denmark are quite dependent on coal

It is not pro-European.  It is pro-Chinese and the other "emerging" nations who are climbing the ranks of global polluters. 

It is anti-American because several provisions called on the US to scale back emissions further than other countries by a lack of proper indexing.  In my optinion, some nations ignored or missed how much the treaty would hurt them because they saw a chance to hit the US.

Now the US is not signed onto the treaty and they are having to hurt themselves.  In the economic race with the United States, they shot themselves in the foot.

[Jens]

Kyoto? Have a look at what they say must be done. Most of it would negatively effect America signidficantly, but hardly lay a finger on europe. It's more pro-european then anti-american, but either way it's pretty bad for america-and australia.

In what way is Kyoto more pro-European? And some European countries like Denmark are quite dependent on coal

It is not pro-European.  It is pro-Chinese and the other "emerging" nations who are climbing the ranks of global polluters. 

It is anti-American because several provisions called on the US to scale back emissions further than other countries by a lack of proper indexing.  In my optinion, some nations ignored or missed how much the treaty would hurt them because they saw a chance to hit the US.

Now the US is not signed onto the treaty and they are having to hurt themselves.  In the economic race with the United States, they shot themselves in the foot.

That doesn't really justify the fact that the energy consumption and CO2 emission of the US are quite alot higher per person that the average European and mush higher that countries like China. Pro-chinese or not, the vast majority of the Chinese only emits a fraction of the CO2 emitted by an American

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That doesn't really justify the fact that the energy consumption and CO2 emission of the US are quite alot higher per person that the average European and mush higher that countries like China. Pro-chinese or not, the vast majority of the Chinese only emits a fraction of the CO2 emitted by an American

It doesn't really matter how high the emissions per capita are; just the total emissions. Everything else is politics.

[Jens]

That doesn't really justify the fact that the energy consumption and CO2 emission of the US are quite alot higher per person that the average European and mush higher that countries like China. Pro-chinese or not, the vast majority of the Chinese only emits a fraction of the CO2 emitted by an American

It doesn't really matter how high the emissions per capita are; just the total emissions. Everything else is politics.

Why on Earth doesn't emissions per capita matter? It is one of the areas where it is possible to compare and tell which countries that, if they made an effort, seriously could reduse the emission.
Fx a comparition between a major developed country and a minor developed country. The difference in CO2 emission is of cause enormous because the economy of the major country is much larger that the econimy of the minor country but that doesn't really tell us anything about the inpact on the global CO2 emission. If we then look at per capita emission the minor country has a much higher emission per capita fx because the majority of the country's energy is coal based, thus telling us that the CO2 emission reduction demands on the major country should be moderate, since their emission on a global scale isn't that bad, while the minor country could and should be able to reduce the emission much more basically tryin to reach the emission level of the major country.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why on Earth doesn't emissions per capita matter?

Quite simple; because it doesn't effect anything as far as the climate goes. Emissions do o/c but it doesn't matter who makes them. Anything else is politics (which isn't the same as saying it's unimportent).

[Richard]

Yo Brits!  And Kiwis!  And Aussies!  You dipsh**ts ain't doing enough to meet your Kyoto targets.  Better get more taxes going there...

[Jens]

Why on Earth doesn't emissions per capita matter?

Quite simple; because it doesn't effect anything as far as the climate goes. Emissions do o/c but it doesn't matter who makes them. Anything else is politics (which isn't the same as saying it's unimportent).

That is what I would call an oversimplicification

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why on Earth doesn't emissions per capita matter?

Quite simple; because it doesn't effect anything as far as the climate goes. Emissions do o/c but it doesn't matter who makes them. Anything else is politics (which isn't the same as saying it's unimportent).

That is what I would call an oversimplicification

True