Cheney's Congressional Record

[CARLHAYDEN]

Does anyone remember the phony hospital interview with CIA director Casey?

[angus]

Good stuff, written up superbly by Adrian Havill about ten years ago it the book "Deep Truth."  But remember yalie Woodward was only in Book and Snake, a cut below the more infamous Skull and Bones, so he can't be expected to keep a serious face when telling tall tales as well as Mssrs. Kerry and Bush can.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Good points.

Did you ever read Casey's book on the battles of the Revolutionary War?

[angus]

No I didn't, or don't remember one specifically on that topic, maybe I will have a chance to read it this summer.

[classical liberal]

Cheney was a member of Congress from 1979 to 1989.  Here are a few highlights of his voting record.

*During his first year in Congress, he voted for a constitutional amendment to ban busing for school desegregation.

That is a liberal vote, the Federal Government is not constitutionally authorized to have any jurisdiction over state bussing procedures.  An abstention is the only Conservative action wrt that topic.

*In 1980, he voted against strengthening the laws banning discrimination in housing.

What is discrimination in housing?

*He was one of only 29 House members to oppose the collection of hate-crimes data in 1988.

Collection of data is always good, unless the Federal Government foots the bill.

*Cheney voted against sanctions for the racist apartheid regime in South Africa. And he opposed a 1986 resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela, the recognition of the African National Congress and negotiations with South Africa's black majority.

Sanctions are bad for the economy as the close foreign markets while not changing the situation in the domestic marketplace(countries we've sanctioned, other than China and Russia, haven't been advanced enough to  our marketplace)  The South African people should have been held responsible for their own restructuring, the USA has no place butting in to that process.

*In 1983 he voted against the Equal Rights Amendment.

I'll comment if I ever read it.

*Cheney voted against the creation of the Department of Education, and in 1985 he voted against federal aid to college students.

Those are Conservative votes.  The Department of Education is Unconstitutional.

*Cheney was one of eight representatives who opposed extending the Clean Water Act in 1987.

This act was actually constitutional, but as a matter of principle the Federal government should have no place imposing standards of any kind.  Competitors blasting the dirty companies in advertisments that steal the dirty companies clients/customers should be sufficient.

*He voted to postpone sanctions against corporate polluters.

See previous

*Cheney voted against legislation requiring energy and chemical companies to disclose records of emissions that cause birth defects, cancer and other diseases.

This law was constitutional, but again as a matter of principle the Federal Government has no place messing with the marketplace; competitors blasting the dirty companies in ads and stealing their clients/customers should be sufficient.

*In 1985, he was one of 21 representatives who voted against a ban on armor-piercing "cop killer" bullets.

see the US Constitution, Amendment 2

*He was one of four members of Congress who opposed a ban on plastic guns that evade airport metal detectors.

Can a plastic gun pack any heat at all?

*In 1988, Cheney voted against a seven-day waiting period for handgun purchases.

see the US Constitution, Amendment 2

[classical liberal]

I see your point.

However, technically I think you'd find that some of the Bolshevik and Nazi stuff would have approval ratings up there.

So they weren't 'extreme', merely repugnant.  The fact that despotisms (Nazis, political Islam, etc.) are often popular is one reason I dislike democracy.

That was just as elitist as the parternalism that plagues the New England Liberal Democrats.

[opebo]

I see your point.

However, technically I think you'd find that some of the Bolshevik and Nazi stuff would have approval ratings up there.

So they weren't 'extreme', merely repugnant.  The fact that despotisms (Nazis, political Islam, etc.) are often popular is one reason I dislike democracy.

That was just as elitist as the parternalism that plagues the New England Liberal Democrats.

They don't have a monopoly on elitism.

[CARLHAYDEN]

You really need to understand what was involved in the congressional votes Cheyney cast.

First, the vote on 'busing' was to prohibit federal judges from ordering busing ostudents to achieve racial balance in public schools.

Second, the so-called housing discrimination vote was not to establish federal laws banning housing discrimination but rather to expand (radically) the scope of existing laws.

Third, the so-called 'hate crimes' data was merely a public relations ploy by liberals in congress.  The crimes are crimes irrespective of their motivation.  In addition, there are difficulties in deciding which crimes are hate crimes.  When blacks rioted in south central and attacked business owned by orientals were they engaged in looting for profit or a 'hate crime'?

Fourth, the sanctions against South Africa already existed.  The vote in question was to extend the sanctions to punish Americans who owned and bought and sold Krugerands.

Fifth, the vote on the Equal Rights Amendment cited was to extend the period during which the states had to adopt the amendment.  Do you think a football game should be extended until the team you want to win edges again in the score?

Sixth, as you correctly noted the Department of Education is a bureaucracy which has not improved education, but merely added a plethora of rules governing the education system.  Moreover, there were already a number of funding mechanisms from the federal government for college education in existence.  The vote cited was to create new entitlements.

Seventh, the major impact (financially) of the so-called 'clean water act' was and is on municipalities.  It caused massive cost increases without adequate scientific justification for the requirements then and later imposed.  

Eighth, the vote on the corporate sanctions was a wise and prudent one.  Liberals refuse to engage in cost/benefit analysis.  

Ninth, the 'disclosure' cited had two interlinked problems: the 'causation' issue (remember how cell phones were supposed to cause cancer?) and and attempt by plaintiff lawyers to obtain information they could not obtain by court order.

Tenth, the so-called 'cop-killer bullets' issue is one of the biggest lies.  Two retired policemen in Ohio developed a teflon coated bullet to pierce automobile doors which they sold ONLY to law enforcement.  There is NO evidence that any of those bullets ever resulted in a single death of a law enforcement officer.  What did happen was that the bill in question specified the lead content in a bullet in such an extreme manner that many convention bullets would be banned!

Eleventh, the 'plastic gun' is another big lie.  Glock developed a pistol which is largely plastic, but whose core is and was metal.  It was and is clearly detectable by airport Xray machines.  It is, in my humble opinion a piece of &#!^.  However, many law enforcement agencies have adoped it as either a primary or secondary (backup) weapon.

Twelveth, they only purpose of the waiting period was and is to hassle gun owners.  Approximately forty years ago California adopted a week long waiting period which has since been explanded to fifteen day.  Proponents of the measure in Congress privately admitted they had the same intent.

Finally, don't believe the labels liberals place on matters, but instead look at the substance.  False labeling is a favorite form of liberal spin.  

[angus]

That was a sober dissection, Carlhayden.  Thanks for taking the time.  I wanted to do just that, but became lazy and opted for the tongue-in-cheek approach.  A couple of points:  Hate Crimes Legislations probably deserves its own thread as it is a terrible idea to set up a thought-police state.  Nevermind the fact that if you kill a man who happens to be the same color as you it is no less heinous than killing one of a different color.  Nevermind the fact that arson, theft, assault, battery, rape, and murder are all already prosecutable under existing law.  etc.  etc.  Also, cops know what they're getting into, just like firemen, soldiers, and air-traffic controllers.  It's a high stress situation and they are rewarded fairly well for their work.  There's no need to sugar-coat Cheney's particular vote in that case.  Finally, sanctions against South Africa, like sanctions against Iraq, had the effect of harming most the innocent, the children and elderly and impoverished, while having a disproportionately small effect on those against whom the sanctions were impose.  Did the four hundred thousand children who died in Saddam Hussein's Iraq because of UN sanctions really represent a threat?  Did they do anything to merit those sanctions?

[CARLHAYDEN]

I know what you mean.

I had hoped someone would challenge the mislabeling of the items as I had other things to do.