Chelsea Manning denied entry into Canada

[America Needs R'hllor]

Good. She's a felon and they're enforcing common-sense laws. I can't wait for her to be caught violating the law again and be locked up as long as the law legally allows, preferably forever. (In a women's prison, of course.)

So your pro-killing innocent civilians and locking up anyone who exposes it?

You are honestly one of the most predictable posters on this forum. Learn how to understand reality.

Do you think any war has had no civilian casualties? Are Allied troops from WW2 "war criminals" because of the heavy civilian losses?

No one is pro-killing civilians. It's just many of us are against supporting disgusting traitors like Chelsea Manning.

This, basically. Canada is fully within its rights to deny her entry.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Haha serves her right

[BudgieForce]

She commited a felony and has to suffer the consequences. One of those consequences being Canada refusing her entry.

[KingSweden]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

Now to her credit her leak was benign in comparison to what Snowden put out there and unlike him she had the spine to stay in America and face the consequences of her actions instead of fleeing into Putin's arms. Still, she'a a felon and Canada has the right not to let her in for that reason alone. The celebration of her by many progressives seems odd to me, and I suspect that it flows from long-held skepticism of the intelligence community (I disagree but YMMV) as well as her belonging to an interest group currently in fashion (which is absurd, there are plenty of wonderful transwomen to celebrate who AREN'T felons who abetted a foreign adversary)

[GoTfan]

She let people know what the US military was doing, so she's a criminal?

Okay then, 'Guardians of democracy'.

[publicunofficial]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often. 

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

She's too good for the Canucks anyway.

[KingSweden]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often. 

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

WaPo published the Pentagon Papers (or maybe it was NYT?). She could have gone to them. It would still have been illegal, of course, but Assange has always been a ballsack and will always be a ballsack. And while Clinton bears much blame, in her own words it takes a village and WikiLeaks was there to muddy the waters against her every time Trump was reeling. One cannot separate their role in running interference for Trump from the disaster last November. And while I'm sure Manning did what she thought was right, she helped build the brand, even inadvertently.

Jenner is the worst, no disagreement there. But my comment had in mind people like the Wachowski Sisters (who helped me understand what transgenderism means more so than anyone before).

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Trudeau is not welcoming to furriners.  #SAD

[publicunofficial]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often. 

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

WaPo published the Pentagon Papers (or maybe it was NYT?). She could have gone to them. It would still have been illegal, of course, but Assange has always been a ballsack and will always be a ballsack. And while Clinton bears much blame, in her own words it takes a village and WikiLeaks was there to muddy the waters against her every time Trump was reeling. One cannot separate their role in running interference for Trump from the disaster last November. And while I'm sure Manning did what she thought was right, she helped build the brand, even inadvertently.

Jenner is the worst, no disagreement there. But my comment had in mind people like the Wachowski Sisters (who helped me understand what transgenderism means more so than anyone before).

None of your reasoning really justifies feeling a tinge of joy when she can't visit Calgary or whatever.

Also I'm willing to bet the Wachowski's are not on Team "The NSA is good, actually" 

[KingSweden]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often. 

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

WaPo published the Pentagon Papers (or maybe it was NYT?). She could have gone to them. It would still have been illegal, of course, but Assange has always been a ballsack and will always be a ballsack. And while Clinton bears much blame, in her own words it takes a village and WikiLeaks was there to muddy the waters against her every time Trump was reeling. One cannot separate their role in running interference for Trump from the disaster last November. And while I'm sure Manning did what she thought was right, she helped build the brand, even inadvertently.

Jenner is the worst, no disagreement there. But my comment had in mind people like the Wachowski Sisters (who helped me understand what transgenderism means more so than anyone before).

None of your reasoning really justifies feeling a tinge of joy when she can't visit Calgary or whatever.

Also I'm willing to bet the Wachowski's are not on Team "The NSA is good, actually" 

I'm definitely more of a natsec hawk than you are (understandably so, since we have fairly divergent views on many things) so I take a dimmer view of what she did. She risked countless American lives overseas and damaged the ability of other nations to trust that our diplomacy with them in backchannels will stay confidential. Whether we should have the global presence we do is a fair debate to have, but I still think the USA (at least pre-Trump) has a much better chance of sustaining a liberal world order than Russia or China. We're just going to have to respectfully disagree here.

I can't speak to the political views of the Wachowski Sisters. I'm sure you are right that they aren't natsec hawks, but that wasn't what I was implying, anyhow.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Literally the only thing Manning did wrong was leak the information through Julian Assange instead of some other way that doesn't involve that piece of subhuman trash. That's it.

She handed the information not over to a responsible journalistic source, but to an infoterrorist who aims to hurt the US any way he can. That's the difference.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Good. She's a felon and they're enforcing common-sense laws. I can't wait for her to be caught violating the law again and be locked up as long as the law legally allows, preferably forever. (In a women's prison, of course.)

So your pro-killing innocent civilians and locking up anyone who exposes it?

You are honestly one of the most predictable posters on this forum. Learn how to understand reality.

Do you think any war has had no civilian casualties? Are Allied troops from WW2 "war criminals" because of the heavy civilian losses?

No one is pro-killing civilians. It's just many of us are against supporting disgusting traitors like Chelsea Manning.

There's a difference between accidentally killing civilians and knowing full well that you are killing civilians and saying meh. Obama basically shrugged off these deaths, of course also did Bush.

[publicunofficial]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often.  

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

WaPo published the Pentagon Papers (or maybe it was NYT?). She could have gone to them. It would still have been illegal, of course, but Assange has always been a ballsack and will always be a ballsack. And while Clinton bears much blame, in her own words it takes a village and WikiLeaks was there to muddy the waters against her every time Trump was reeling. One cannot separate their role in running interference for Trump from the disaster last November. And while I'm sure Manning did what she thought was right, she helped build the brand, even inadvertently.

Jenner is the worst, no disagreement there. But my comment had in mind people like the Wachowski Sisters (who helped me understand what transgenderism means more so than anyone before).

None of your reasoning really justifies feeling a tinge of joy when she can't visit Calgary or whatever.

Also I'm willing to bet the Wachowski's are not on Team "The NSA is good, actually"  

I'm definitely more of a natsec hawk than you are (understandably so, since we have fairly divergent views on many things) so I take a dimmer view of what she did. She risked countless American lives overseas and damaged the ability of other nations to trust that our diplomacy with them in backchannels will stay confidential. Whether we should have the global presence we do is a fair debate to have, but I still think the USA (at least pre-Trump) has a much better chance of sustaining a liberal world order than Russia or China. We're just going to have to respectfully disagree here.

I can't speak to the political views of the Wachowski Sisters. I'm sure you are right that they aren't natsec hawks, but that wasn't what I was implying, anyhow.

1) Nothing Manning leaked got anyone killed, or even close.

2) If we want other countries to trust us we shouldn't have been spying on them.

I'm also not entirely convinced a "Liberal world order" is what the CIA, NSA,  ect. REALLY care about at the end of the day.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

[KingSweden]

Haha serves her right

Ugh KS you're a good poster so it kills me when you have terrible opinions like this one.

Wikileaks helped elect Trump at Russia's behest, and she helped make Wikileaks a household name with the 2010 leak. For that reason alone, any center-left person (or left, as yourself) should scorn her for her role in helping elect our embarrassment of a President.

1] I fully believe the only person responsible for electing Trump is Hillary Clinton, anything else is scape-goating b.s.

2] Going to WikiLeaks was the smartest option without the hindsight of Julian Assange being a massive ballsack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That you would find it odd that progressives celebrate someone who was willing to sacrifice everything to reveal the government's crimes shows a very real lack of understanding of progressives or leftism in general.

It has nothing to do with her gender, It's empathy stemming from the idea that if I was in the NSA, I would have either done the exact same thing or been too much of a coward to go through with it. I can't speak for Manning supporters everywhere but that is the sentiment I see most often.  

Oh and Chelsea Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caitlin Jenner.

WaPo published the Pentagon Papers (or maybe it was NYT?). She could have gone to them. It would still have been illegal, of course, but Assange has always been a ballsack and will always be a ballsack. And while Clinton bears much blame, in her own words it takes a village and WikiLeaks was there to muddy the waters against her every time Trump was reeling. One cannot separate their role in running interference for Trump from the disaster last November. And while I'm sure Manning did what she thought was right, she helped build the brand, even inadvertently.

Jenner is the worst, no disagreement there. But my comment had in mind people like the Wachowski Sisters (who helped me understand what transgenderism means more so than anyone before).

None of your reasoning really justifies feeling a tinge of joy when she can't visit Calgary or whatever.

Also I'm willing to bet the Wachowski's are not on Team "The NSA is good, actually"  

I'm definitely more of a natsec hawk than you are (understandably so, since we have fairly divergent views on many things) so I take a dimmer view of what she did. She risked countless American lives overseas and damaged the ability of other nations to trust that our diplomacy with them in backchannels will stay confidential. Whether we should have the global presence we do is a fair debate to have, but I still think the USA (at least pre-Trump) has a much better chance of sustaining a liberal world order than Russia or China. We're just going to have to respectfully disagree here.

I can't speak to the political views of the Wachowski Sisters. I'm sure you are right that they aren't natsec hawks, but that wasn't what I was implying, anyhow.

1) Nothing Manning leaked got anyone killed, or even close.

2) If we want other countries to trust us we shouldn't have been spying on them.

I'm also not entirely convinced a "Liberal world order" is what the CIA, NSA,  ect. REALLY care about at the end of the day.

Well, "liberal" in the sense of Western values, rather than state-autocracy like China or Russia.

And other countries spy on us, even allies, though perhaps not as audaciously

[Kringla Heimsins]

And other countries spy on us, even allies, though perhaps not as audaciously

I just want to imagine your reaction if Germany had wiretapped the President...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

Some politicians in this country are morally bankrupt to the point where they think Snowden should be sentenced to death.

Snowden is very justified in staying out of this country.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

Some politicians in this country are morally bankrupt to the point where they think Snowden should be sentenced to death.

Snowden is very justified in staying out of this country.

No, he isn't.  The fact that he's being allowed to stay in Russia means he's almost certainly disclosed all he knows to Russian intelligence which would make him a traitor.

[Kringla Heimsins]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

Some politicians in this country are morally bankrupt to the point where they think Snowden should be sentenced to death.

Snowden is very justified in staying out of this country.

No, he isn't.  The fact that he's being allowed to stay in Russia means he's almost certainly disclosed all he knows to Russian intelligence which would make him a traitor.

I really don't think so. The Russians probably took him only to spite the US.

If he did, that would make him an actual traitor, however. In the way Chelsea Manning never was. I hope he didn't.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

Some politicians in this country are morally bankrupt to the point where they think Snowden should be sentenced to death.

Snowden is very justified in staying out of this country.

No, he isn't.  The fact that he's being allowed to stay in Russia means he's almost certainly disclosed all he knows to Russian intelligence which would make him a traitor.

I really don't think so. The Russians probably took him only to spite the US.

If he did, that would make him an actual traitor, however. In the way Chelsea Manning never was. I hope he didn't.

I mean, think about it.  If you're FSB or whoever, why wouldn't you make that a condition of letting him live in Russia? 

[Fight for Trump]

Technically, Snowden was on his way to South America (probably Ecuador) from Hong Kong via Moscow, and his passport was canceled by the US government before he arrived in Moscow, and he was unable to carry on to South America, leaving him stranded in Russia. Of course, Assange helped with the process, and we all know his Russian connections, and Snowden flew on Aeroflot for a reason, but Snowden didn't intend for Russia to be his permanent diplomatic shield.

[KingSweden]

And other countries spy on us, even allies, though perhaps not as audaciously

I just want to imagine your reaction if Germany had wiretapped the President...

I doubt the German IC has that capability, but I'm positive they have considerable assets within the US government who their officers are in regular contact with. The DGSE almost certainly does, same with Mossad, etc. it isn't necessarily something I defend, but it's naive to believe otherwise.

Manning and Snowden are heroes, not traitors.

I'd respect Snowden more if he had the balls (it's a joke, relax guys) that Manning had and returned to serve his sentence. But I support full pardons for both of them.

I don't believe Manning ever fled in the first place? Either way, she faced the consequences for her actions in a way Snowden did not (and she's also not a traitor. Felon, absolutely, but no traitor).