Rep. McDermott (D-WA) Defends Self with Shovel from Bernie Cultist
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  Rep. McDermott (D-WA) Defends Self with Shovel from Bernie Cultist
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Author Topic: Rep. McDermott (D-WA) Defends Self with Shovel from Bernie Cultist  (Read 1418 times)
Sorenroy
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2016, 09:58:05 AM »

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Are we tired of the left yet?

I'm tired of you trying to pretend that this guy is representative of "the left."

This guy isn't representative of the left.
Saying "it's ok for me to be as rude and hostile and horrible as I want, because I was being silenced by this person", where "silenced" means "wouldn't listen to me" or "disagreed with me" is perfectly representative of the activist left in America these days.

Is that something unique to any group in the United States? The KKK, hardcore Pro-Lifers, and the Wesboro Baptist Church all easily come to mind, and that's just scraping the surface. Not only that, but people have the right to do what they want. A few weeks ago, I went with my mom to visit an old college friend who now works for the UN. While now an accomplished man working in 20 different countries for human rights, he hung around with some weird groups in college. When he came back to the United States he visited some of these friends, people who couldn't understand why he felt discomfort with them saying the N word around him (as an Indian man who had been assaulted by someone using that language in the pas) even when he asked them not to. Their reason behind it was that they were not going to allow anyone to take away their rights to do something as basic as say words, even if that someone was a longtime friend who just wanted them to stop for the duration of the visit. And that's honestly not a bad thing. It is the right of people to say whatever they want, whenever they want (minus a few things like threatening physical violence). While this does lead to some a-holes being rude to everyone they meet, it also leads to public protests against what people believe is wrong. And rather then getting your head cut off, like one might in one of the UN countries Amit works in, society as a whole decides what to do. It is in fact one of the things that makes the United States a thriving, continuous Democracy. Voices, voices that have led to great changes (the end of slavery, the beginning of civil rights, the Women's Suffrage movement), as well as voices that think B**** and N*****, are what keeps this country alive.

Besides that, the over-generalization of any group is not only dumb, but does exactly the opposite of what we want. If your point is to say that "the left" is a group of protesting idiots who are so PC that they can't even interact with normal human beings, then you split yourself into two different sides. Yet you also wonder why the divide between Democrats and Republicans keeps growing or why Sanders supporters can't just accept the loss of their candidate and back Hillary Clinton. Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the fact that surrogates and others have been saying inflammatory, derisive things over the course of the campaign (The same would be true of Sanders if he was winning. His supporters and surrogates have not done a great job accepting Clinton supporters into their ranks.)

Not to mention the fact that in trying to prove and double-down on your argument that "the left" is a problem, you simultaneously do what you were just complaining about. "Are we tired of the left yet?" is a perfect example of saying "it's ok for me to be as rude and hostile as I want" just for a slightly different reason. Rather then that reason being that the other side is shutting you out of a voice, your argument is that that voice is over-represented and thus pushes you out of your own opinion by making it less important by deciding to spam post their own thoughts.

Before you post just realize what you're doing. I don't disagree that people who believe that their own ideas are so far superior to your own that they will not even acknowledge the other side are a problem, but I don't go about saying that a whole group of people are in that issue. The old grandmas who organize groups to get out the vote or send letters to congress share the term "activist left" with internet trolls who believe it is their duty to shut down, ban, or otherwise trivialize the arguments of others. It was not so long ago that being a "liberal" was an insult because of its extremes, but now we can see that being a "liberal" means a lot more then that.

And this is not something directed specifically at you or people on this forum. It is a problem with people around the web, in the real world, and at all levels of society. The only reason that you are the target of the post is that what you wrote, and your attempt to defend it, perfectly illustrate my point.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2016, 10:22:54 AM »

Quote
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Are we tired of the left yet?

I'm tired of you trying to pretend that this guy is representative of "the left."

This guy isn't representative of the left.
Saying "it's ok for me to be as rude and hostile and horrible as I want, because I was being silenced by this person", where "silenced" means "wouldn't listen to me" or "disagreed with me" is perfectly representative of the activist left in America these days.

Is that something unique to any group in the United States? The KKK, hardcore Pro-Lifers, and the Wesboro Baptist Church all easily come to mind, and that's just scraping the surface. Not only that, but people have the right to do what they want. A few weeks ago, I went with my mom to visit an old college friend who now works for the UN. While now an accomplished man working in 20 different countries for human rights, he hung around with some weird groups in college. When he came back to the United States he visited some of these friends, people who couldn't understand why he felt discomfort with them saying the N word around him (as an Indian man who had been assaulted by someone using that language in the pas) even when he asked them not to. Their reason behind it was that they were not going to allow anyone to take away their rights to do something as basic as say words, even if that someone was a longtime friend who just wanted them to stop for the duration of the visit. And that's honestly not a bad thing. It is the right of people to say whatever they want, whenever they want (minus a few things like threatening physical violence). While this does lead to some a-holes being rude to everyone they meet, it also leads to public protests against what people believe is wrong. And rather then getting your head cut off, like one might in one of the UN countries Amit works in, society as a whole decides what to do. It is in fact one of the things that makes the United States a thriving, continuous Democracy. Voices, voices that have led to great changes (the end of slavery, the beginning of civil rights, the Women's Suffrage movement), as well as voices that think B**** and N*****, are what keeps this country alive.

Besides that, the over-generalization of any group is not only dumb, but does exactly the opposite of what we want. If your point is to say that "the left" is a group of protesting idiots who are so PC that they can't even interact with normal human beings, then you split yourself into two different sides. Yet you also wonder why the divide between Democrats and Republicans keeps growing or why Sanders supporters can't just accept the loss of their candidate and back Hillary Clinton. Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the fact that surrogates and others have been saying inflammatory, derisive things over the course of the campaign (The same would be true of Sanders if he was winning. His supporters and surrogates have not done a great job accepting Clinton supporters into their ranks.)

Not to mention the fact that in trying to prove and double-down on your argument that "the left" is a problem, you simultaneously do what you were just complaining about. "Are we tired of the left yet?" is a perfect example of saying "it's ok for me to be as rude and hostile as I want" just for a slightly different reason. Rather then that reason being that the other side is shutting you out of a voice, your argument is that that voice is over-represented and thus pushes you out of your own opinion by making it less important by deciding to spam post their own thoughts.

Before you post just realize what you're doing. I don't disagree that people who believe that their own ideas are so far superior to your own that they will not even acknowledge the other side are a problem, but I don't go about saying that a whole group of people are in that issue. The old grandmas who organize groups to get out the vote or send letters to congress share the term "activist left" with internet trolls who believe it is their duty to shut down, ban, or otherwise trivialize the arguments of others. It was not so long ago that being a "liberal" was an insult because of its extremes, but now we can see that being a "liberal" means a lot more then that.

And this is not something directed specifically at you or people on this forum. It is a problem with people around the web, in the real world, and at all levels of society. The only reason that you are the target of the post is that what you wrote, and your attempt to defend it, perfectly illustrate my point.

You're simultaneously reading too literally and over-generalizing what I said.

Reading too literally:  Obviously I don't mean the entire left or even the entire activist left, but a prominent behavior coming out of that group.  If another GOP governor had tried to ban abortion and I had said "ugh, are we tired of the christian right yet?", or if Cam Newton had done something obnoxious and I'd said "ugh, are we tired of the Panthers yet?" I don't think you would have said "hey a lot of christian right people are just well meaning christians who don't want to ban abortion" or "hey most of the Panthers are humble, hard-working athletes."

Over-generalizing:  Your entire story about other countries is nice but I was referring very specifically to a specific tactic used by activists on the left.  I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I was being silenced" used as justification, like those exact words are a get-out-of-responsibility-free card.  The KKK and WBC have other nasty little justifications for their behavior.  But this thread wasn't about them.

I also don't feel like my voice is being pushed out, or give any thought to "voices" and their relative strengths at all.  I just thought the guy was yet another asshole who felt empowered to do something crazy by the political climate on the activist left.  Doesn't really affect me at all.
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