Bernie Sanders claims America founded on 'Racist Principles'

[WVdemocrat]

It was the founding principles of this nation that inspired the abolitionists in the 18th and 19th century and the Civil Rights protesters in the 20th century.

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No, it was groups of people being fycking fed-up with the status quo that inspired them. Enough with the Constitution fetishization already. Those same sentiments existed before said document and will exist long after it as well, for it is universal.

I'm not sure how you could deny that those words inspired people to change the status quo.

Citation please.

What inspired them to change the status quo were those ideas, which, as has been said, existed before the Constitution and continue to exist independent of it.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Sanders knows exactly who he's talking to, the only people who can put him in office.

The problem is, if they manage, he's not likely to last the year because those same people are rarely satisfied with "close enough".

[Brewer]

Yeah, tbf he's not wrong. But I encourage him to keep saying things like this!

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Of course he's not wrong. But it's a downright stupid thing to say.

[Torie]

I guess this is Sanders' way to try to connect to the black vote.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

If you had asked any American up until the early/mid-20th century if the principles of America included racial equality they would have laughed in your face. Even Lincoln could not publicly advocate that.

[Mercenary]

Most of his supporters, the left of the Democratic party, probably agree with him so it will not hurt him in the primary. I doubt it'd help him either though. However, I think it'd hurt him in the general as I doubt anyone beyond his base endorses that claim.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

A certain amount of racial reconciliation can come about if we can, to some extent, agree to disagree about cultural attitudes toward "The Founders" and other historical figures.  I understand the need for Patriotic Education to foster ''One Nation" in a nation made up of diverse peoples.   I also understand the ambivalence many black folks may have toward many of our Founding Fathers, many of whom were CLEARLY racist, and apologetic toward the "Peculiar Institution".  I can also understand why many folks today would view our conduct toward Indian Tribes to be nothing less than Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide.  These deeds cannot be undone, and the verdict is clear on this.

On the other hand, there is a bottom line to all of this, and that bottom line is whether or not TODAY the United States of America is a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation, and I think that this verdict is equally clear.  This nation was indispensable in successfully ending the Nazi menace and in establishing stability in Europe after over a century of various wars.  If we have been imperialistic, we have also been benevolent and generous on balance, and the World is a better place BECAUSE the United States of America became its most powerful nation.   This is a consensus view of Americans (or, at least, the vast majority of them) and Presidential candidates who don't adhere to this go down in fames.  There's no call for Howard Zinn or Ward Churchill to lead America.  This is a point on which Bernie Sanders needs to become aware of quickly, or Clinton will trounce him to where he'll become a trivia question.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But the constitution is condoning slavery there.

But what were they supposed to do? Just let the Southern States count their slaves and get free House seats?

Don't get me wrong America had a lot of racism in it's founding but the Three-Fifths Compromise if often cited as evidence of this, when the reality is more complicated.

My point is that the Constitution has racism written into it, which proves Sanders' point.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

On the other hand, there is a bottom line to all of this, and that bottom line is whether or not TODAY the United States of America is a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation, and I think that this verdict is equally clear.  This nation was indispensable in successfully ending the Nazi menace and in establishing stability in Europe after over a century of various wars.  If we have been imIt certainly provesperialistic, we have also been benevolent and generous on balance, and the World is a better place BECAUSE the United States of America became its most powerful nation.   This is a consensus view of Americans (or, at least, the vast majority of them) and Presidential candidates who don't adhere to this go down in fames.  There's no call for Howard Zinn or Ward Churchill to lead America.  This is a point on which Bernie Sanders needs to become aware of quickly, or Clinton will trounce him to where he'll become a trivia question.

Just because Sanders is saying this country was founding on racism in the 1700s doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate that it ended the regime that killed his father's family in the 1940s.  In fact, Sanders says the fact that the Nazis won elections is what made him realize how important politics is.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

On the other hand, there is a bottom line to all of this, and that bottom line is whether or not TODAY the United States of America is a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation, and I think that this verdict is equally clear.  This nation was indispensable in successfully ending the Nazi menace and in establishing stability in Europe after over a century of various wars.  If we have been imIt certainly provesperialistic, we have also been benevolent and generous on balance, and the World is a better place BECAUSE the United States of America became its most powerful nation.   This is a consensus view of Americans (or, at least, the vast majority of them) and Presidential candidates who don't adhere to this go down in fames.  There's no call for Howard Zinn or Ward Churchill to lead America.  This is a point on which Bernie Sanders needs to become aware of quickly, or Clinton will trounce him to where he'll become a trivia question.

Just because Sanders is saying this country was founding on racism in the 1700s doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate that it ended the regime that killed his father's family in the 1940s.  In fact, Sanders says the fact that the Nazis won elections is what made him realize how important politics is.

A guy like Sanders needs to emphasize his belief in America as a GOOD nation.  Dwelling on the Founding Fathers is the Howard Zinn thing.  Howard Zinn does not love America, and once people find that out, they don't line Howard Zinn. 

[Famous Mortimer]

That being said, it is incredibly naive and narrow-minded to hold the founding fathers to a higher standard that places them outside of the 18th century.

This is an old, dumb line and I hate it. We're not holding them to a higher standard. Plenty of people knew slavery was bad in the 18th century, including like half the people at the constitutional convention.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It was the founding principles of this nation that inspired the abolitionists in the 18th and 19th century and the Civil Rights protesters in the 20th century.

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This is very true.

It is also true what Sanders said:

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He did not use the word "founded" here as in the thread title, which is an important distinction given the connotations which the word "founding" brings.  Our founding national documents did not create slavery and racism in America, but rather these documents would variously support, undermine, and transform the racism which had developed prior to them, which had and would continue to shape American structures and experience.

[skoods]

The faux anger from the right is nauseating. As if saying America is founded on racist principles (Sanders) is worse than actually being a racist (Trump).

[Col. Roosevelt]

That being said, it is incredibly naive and narrow-minded to hold the founding fathers to a higher standard that places them outside of the 18th century.

This is an old, dumb line and I hate it. We're not holding them to a higher standard. Plenty of people knew slavery was bad in the 18th century, including like half the people at the constitutional convention.

SJW: We get it, America was evil before 1970 or so.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

America was founded of the principals of limited government, freedom of expression, and the right of self determination. Now obviously, these principles were not equally applied to all people for a long period, but that does not make the principles themselves racist. In fact, if you want to know the greatest force preventing greater equality for blacks, look at the Democratic Party.

 From the very beginning of American nationhood, abolitionism was a powerful force. Many of the founders, like Benjamin Franklin, Benjamin Rush, and John Jay thought slavery was a violation of the rights of man and helped to create the first abolitionist societies. Abolition of slavery was passed in PA, MA, CT, RI, NH, VT, AND NY before the beginning of the 19th century, and President Washington signed an act prohibiting slavery in the the then territories of OH, IN, IL, MI, WI, IA.

 Abraham Lincoln understood the founders' situation when he said "just as an afflicted man hides away a wen or a cancer, which he dares not cut out at once, lest he bleed to death; with the promise, nevertheless, that the cutting may begin at the end of a given time." He understood that if the founders' tried to declare an immediate end to all slavery, the new nation would be torn apart. Nevertheless, the founders set forth a system by which the abolition of slavery would eventually be assured.

Let's not forget, however, that until 1896, the Democratic Party was the more conservative party, and not until the 1920s was the Democratic Party the party more in favor of strong, centralized government.

[SWE]

On the other hand, there is a bottom line to all of this, and that bottom line is whether or not TODAY the United States of America is a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation, and I think that this verdict is equally clear.  This nation was indispensable in successfully ending the Nazi menace and in establishing stability in Europe after over a century of various wars.  If we have been imIt certainly provesperialistic, we have also been benevolent and generous on balance, and the World is a better place BECAUSE the United States of America became its most powerful nation.   This is a consensus view of Americans (or, at least, the vast majority of them) and Presidential candidates who don't adhere to this go down in fames.  There's no call for Howard Zinn or Ward Churchill to lead America.  This is a point on which Bernie Sanders needs to become aware of quickly, or Clinton will trounce him to where he'll become a trivia question.

Just because Sanders is saying this country was founding on racism in the 1700s doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate that it ended the regime that killed his father's family in the 1940s.  In fact, Sanders says the fact that the Nazis won elections is what made him realize how important politics is.

A guy like Sanders needs to emphasize his belief in America as a GOOD nation.  Dwelling on the Founding Fathers is the Howard Zinn thing.  Howard Zinn does not love America, and once people find that out, they don't line Howard Zinn. 

'Loving' a hunk of land is nonsense.