Will PA be the next Nebraska/Maine?

[J. J.]

I don't see why any state would split its electoral votes in the absence of a broad national move in the same direction.

I have grave misgivings about different states apportioning their votes in different ways.  So far, there's been no impact from Nebraska and Maine apportioning their votes by CD, but with bigger, less monolithic states, this could produce real problems if some states are winner take all, and others divide their electoral votes.

This could ignite an ugly round of underhanded partisan manipulation, with Republicans trying to get states like New York to do this, while Democrats go after states like Colorado (oh, I forgot, they already did this).

I think we should leave well enough alone.

That's what I've been thinking. The gerrymandering would be endless, and the legal challenges would be non-stop on both sides.

Respectfully, gerrymandering is endless and legal challenges are nonstop on both sides.

[No more McShame]

Please no, we don't need a whole thread about the one EV in PA 13 on the forum.

[MissCatholic]

No, i think colorado will be next.

[ATFFL]

I don't see why any state would split its electoral votes in the absence of a broad national move in the same direction.

Why?  $$$$$.  Battleground states see a lot more money spent in them than non-battelground states.  Campaign visits bring a lot of moeny into the local economy.  Add to that advertising money and it can be an economic windfall to be a battleground.

If you can't get that money in for the whole state, maybe you can bring some in from a  part of it.

[skybridge]

Since the GOP wins most counties already, why aren't they pushing for this kind of electoral reform?

[nini2287]

I thought I read somewhere 15 went for Kerry.  I also wouldn't be surprised if 7 went for Bush.  Bush won Delaware County, which contains a large portion of the 7th district.

Actually, the Atlas says Delaware County went Kerry, 57-42.

Maybe, it was Chester then.  I remember being dissapointed with one of the suburban coutnies.

[Keystone Phil]

Please no, we don't need a whole thread about the one EV in PA 13 on the forum.

Didn't I say that it probably wouldn't get as much attention as the Congressional race? Granted, in the end, the PA 13 CD race wasn't close but dealing with a Presidential race in this district would be a lot different. There would be discussion but not 70 pages worth of it.

[Jake]

I thought I read somewhere 15 went for Kerry.  I also wouldn't be surprised if 7 went for Bush.  Bush won Delaware County, which contains a large portion of the 7th district.

Actually, the Atlas says Delaware County went Kerry, 57-42.

Maybe, it was Chester then.  I remember being dissapointed with one of the suburban coutnies.

Chester was the one. 

[danwxman]

I thought I read somewhere 15 went for Kerry.  I also wouldn't be surprised if 7 went for Bush.  Bush won Delaware County, which contains a large portion of the 7th district.

Actually, the Atlas says Delaware County went Kerry, 57-42.

Maybe, it was Chester then.  I remember being dissapointed with one of the suburban coutnies.

Chester was the one. 

But Chester trended Democrat from 2000-2004 (one of the strongest Democratic trends in the state). I believe it was Bucks county where the Democratic trend has halted.

[dazzleman]

I don't see why any state would split its electoral votes in the absence of a broad national move in the same direction.

I have grave misgivings about different states apportioning their votes in different ways.  So far, there's been no impact from Nebraska and Maine apportioning their votes by CD, but with bigger, less monolithic states, this could produce real problems if some states are winner take all, and others divide their electoral votes.

This could ignite an ugly round of underhanded partisan manipulation, with Republicans trying to get states like New York to do this, while Democrats go after states like Colorado (oh, I forgot, they already did this).

I think we should leave well enough alone.

That's what I've been thinking. The gerrymandering would be endless, and the legal challenges would be non-stop on both sides.

Respectfully, gerrymandering is endless and legal challenges are nonstop on both sides.

But why open up whole new avenues?  The potential for trouble is endless, if you consider what could happen if certain major states are splitting their votes and others are not.  Some doors are best left closed, especially in the bitter partisan atmosphere that pervades today.

[A18]

I don't see why any state would split its electoral votes in the absence of a broad national move in the same direction.

I have grave misgivings about different states apportioning their votes in different ways.  So far, there's been no impact from Nebraska and Maine apportioning their votes by CD, but with bigger, less monolithic states, this could produce real problems if some states are winner take all, and others divide their electoral votes.

This could ignite an ugly round of underhanded partisan manipulation, with Republicans trying to get states like New York to do this, while Democrats go after states like Colorado (oh, I forgot, they already did this).

I think we should leave well enough alone.

That's what I've been thinking. The gerrymandering would be endless, and the legal challenges would be non-stop on both sides.

Respectfully, gerrymandering is endless and legal challenges are nonstop on both sides.

But why open up whole new avenues?  The potential for trouble is endless, if you consider what could happen if certain major states are splitting their votes and others are not.  Some doors are best left closed, especially in the bitter partisan atmosphere that pervades today.

Republicans can't get New York to do this. They can only get states they control to do this.

Texas and New York should switch one day. California and the Solid South another day. Minnesota and Iowa are already close, so they can just split. Take it in steps.

[nini2287]

I thought I read somewhere 15 went for Kerry.  I also wouldn't be surprised if 7 went for Bush.  Bush won Delaware County, which contains a large portion of the 7th district.

Actually, the Atlas says Delaware County went Kerry, 57-42.

Maybe, it was Chester then.  I remember being dissapointed with one of the suburban coutnies.

Chester was the one. 

But Chester trended Democrat from 2000-2004 (one of the strongest Democratic trends in the state). I believe it was Bucks county where the Democratic trend has halted.

Bucks County suffered from weak US House candidate + was hit severly in 9-11.

[No more McShame]

Please no, we don't need a whole thread about the one EV in PA 13 on the forum.

Didn't I say that it probably wouldn't get as much attention as the Congressional race? Granted, in the end, the PA 13 CD race wasn't close but dealing with a Presidential race in this district would be a lot different. There would be discussion but not 70 pages worth of it.

Yes you did, I was joking considering PA-13 has been pulled into just about every thread on this forum.

[jimrtex]

Or would it be the next Michigan?

In the first half-century of the country, election of electors by district was fairly common, though it appears that in many cases the voters were truly choosing their presidential elector, rather than for whom their electoral vote would be cast.   As the national election became increasingly partisan, states switched to statewide election of slates of electors.  This switch occured at the same time other states were switching from legislatively chosen electors.  Maryland was the last to switch to statewide election from 1836 onward (South Carolina, of course used legislative selection of electors until 1860).

In 1890, the Democrats got control of the legislature and governorship and switched to a district plan, and in 1892 split its electoral votes Harrison 9, Cleveland 5 (this was in Cleveland's comeback election).  The GOP recovered control, and switched back to at large election.  This was the last use of districts until Maine adopted its current system in 1972.

It should be remembered that Michigan voted Republican every election from 1856 to 1928, with the exception of 1912, when they voted 1. Roosevelt, 2. Taft, 3. Wilson.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The idea of PA doing EV's by CD is pretty scary... some of those districts are just vile.

Letting gerrymandering decide who becomes the next President is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Joe Republic]

The idea of PA doing EV's by CD is pretty scary... some of those districts are just vile.

Letting gerrymandering decide who becomes the next President is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Another good reason why this motion is a terrible idea, and will probably fail.  At least Nebraska and Maine, with their tiny supply of districts, are hardly victims of the gerrymandering curse.

[The Vorlon]

At the end of the day... these electoral vote splitting plans are just politically, well, stupid for the state in question.

PA is a big prize at 21 EVS and it was within 2.5% in 2004.

 It got I think 40 Presidential visits from Bush, probably not too far from 40 from Kerry, zillions of dollars in ad money and tons of policy and program attention...

Does anybody think PA's 21 EVS are not "in the room" when the Military Base Closing Commission is meeting or the Interstate Highway fund is being dished out?

If the "prize" in PA was to shift the count fron 12-9 (or whatever it is) to 11-10 or 13-8, does anybody think PA would get this sort of attention?

Salazar (D), the new Dem Senator for Colorado won a lot of respect from me in 2004 when he said that the Colorado EV split idea was just stupid partisan non-sense.

Splitting EVs is just plain silly if you are a big state...

[A18]

At the end of the day... these electoral vote splitting plans are just politically, well, stupid for the state in question.

PA is a big prize at 21 EVS and it was within 2.5% in 2004.

 It got I think 40 Presidential visits from Bush, probably not too far from 40 from Kerry, zillions of dollars in ad money and tons of policy and program attention...

Does anybody think PA's 21 EVS are not "in the room" when the Military Base Closing Commission is meeting or the Interstate Highway fund is being dished out?

If the "prize" in PA was to shift the count fron 12-9 (or whatever it is) to 11-10 or 13-8, does anybody think PA would get this sort of attention?

Salazar (D), the new Dem Senator for Colorado won a lot of respect from me in 2004 when he said that the Colorado EV split idea was just stupid partisan non-sense.

Splitting EVs is just plain silly if you are a big state...

Some states, such as California, would get more attention. Right now they just vote Democrat, period, so they're ignored.