What do you prefer ?

[Ban my account ffs!]

Being liberated from the shackles of social norms and tradition isn't easy for others to accept! I think posters here may underestimate how radical I am in spite of the PM scores.

It has nothing to do with "social norms"... it has to do with basic decency towards those around you.  You might not mind your own stank (obviously you don't), but it's offensive to others.

Don't complain about being alone because you invite it.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

...

[Oakvale]

Nasty.

[Cincinnatus]

Shower, no less than once every 20 days, preferably equivalent to once a day.  Liberated..accept it.

[Redalgo]

It has nothing to do with "social norms"... it has to do with basic decency towards those around you.  You might not mind your own stank (obviously you don't), but it's offensive to others.

Don't complain about being alone because you invite it.

Respectfully, I disagree. Basic decency is subjective and a construct, and it is not my responsibility to go about my life in a way that accommodates the preferences of others more so than mine - especially when there is no harm inflicted or injustice done. And I am alone because I'm a lower class hermit accustomed to being an outsider in his own society after a childhood of abuse and exclusion, more focused on the basic necessities of life (which I do not have reliable, sustainable means of procuring) than on placing emphasis on sprucing up the pleasantness of my most superficial qualities to others. If people find it offensive they should feel free to either not stand so closely, establish an order under which people like me wouldn't be so unhappy and devoid of any sense of self-worth as to neglect their hygiene, or offer cash to compensate me for the supplies of time, water, and electricity they want me to use differently.

Redalgo, how do you know when you "need" a shower?

My rule of thumb is to do so: whenever it is uncomfortably hot or I've been noticeably sweating - either from summer temperatures or from exercise, the former of which I avoid by being indoors for almost the entirety of summer and the latter from being sedentary aside from commutes into town; whenever any amount of odour can transfer to my nails from scratching behind either ear; or whenever I intuitively feel dirty (whichever of the three comes first).

If I were going to live with anyone, start looking for a gal, or have more than a moment's contact with other people outside of work I'd likely settle into a pattern of thrice a week out of politeness but for now I have more pressing things to worry about and am always short on time. I'm not going to do something like that for passing strangers.

Feel free to think less of me for it, but also realize that none of you dislike me more than I do.

[Ban my account ffs!]

So despite being a radical fighting for fairness and justice and equality... your basic philosophy boils down to "f**k everyone else, I only care about me and what I want"

That's fine.. just admit it.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

...You seriously expect people to pay you to take a shower?  Is that what you're saying?

[Redalgo]

No, I am not a radical fighting for fairness and justice and equality. I am one fighting for the freedom of individuals to do what makes them happy without subjugation under any sources of oppression. Things like fairness, justice, and certain forms of equality just happen to be conducive to that objective. At the heart of it I am a liberal as the word was used centuries ago, but who is convinced socialism rather than capitalism is most compatible with its overarching goals. There is no denying that I am a selfish person. All other people tend to be selfish too - merely expressing it in different ways. And that is okay, and can even be a positive thing in many contexts.

...You seriously expect people to pay you to take a shower?  Is that what you're saying?

No, I expect them to peaceably leave me to my own labours. Why should they try to control me?

[Ban my account ffs!]

It has nothing to do with "social norms"... it has to do with basic decency towards those around you.  You might not mind your own stank (obviously you don't), but it's offensive to others.

Don't complain about being alone because you invite it.

Respectfully, I disagree. Basic decency is subjective and a construct, and it is not my responsibility to go about my life in a way that accommodates the preferences of others more so than mine - especially when there is no harm inflicted or injustice done. And I am alone because I'm a lower class hermit accustomed to being an outsider in his own society after a childhood of abuse and exclusion, more focused on the basic necessities of life (which I do not have reliable, sustainable means of procuring) than on placing emphasis on sprucing up the pleasantness of my most superficial qualities to others. If people find it offensive they should feel free to either not stand so closely, establish an order under which people like me wouldn't be so unhappy and devoid of any sense of self-worth as to neglect their hygiene, or offer cash to compensate me for the supplies of time, water, and electricity they want me to use differently.

Redalgo, how do you know when you "need" a shower?

My rule of thumb is to do so: whenever it is uncomfortably hot or I've been noticeably sweating - either from summer temperatures or from exercise, the former of which I avoid by being indoors for almost the entirety of summer and the latter from being sedentary aside from commutes into town; whenever any amount of odour can transfer to my nails from scratching behind either ear; or whenever I intuitively feel dirty (whichever of the three comes first).

If I were going to live with anyone, start looking for a gal, or have more than a moment's contact with other people outside of work I'd likely settle into a pattern of thrice a week out of politeness but for now I have more pressing things to worry about and am always short on time. I'm not going to do something like that for passing strangers.

Feel free to think less of me for it, but also realize that none of you dislike me more than I do.

Lack of personal hygiene is a serious indicator of depression.  Rather than addressing the depression, you seem to be adapting your life to accommodate it.

I'm sorry you had an abusive childhood, but that has nothing to do with regular bathing.  I somehow doubt you're so poor that you can't afford to shower.  Hating yourself is also no excuse and you only reaffirm it by having the attitude you have.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This has become a very strange thread.

[Mopsus]

This has become a very strange thread.

An Atlas Forum thread is like a box of chocolates...

[sentinel]

Didn't shower today.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

"i don't shower because john locke"

[Redalgo]

Lack of personal hygiene is a serious indicator of depression.  Rather than addressing the depression, you seem to be adapting your life to accommodate it.

That's what one does when depressed for over a decade. Some of the symptoms can be managed but it is difficult to shake it entirely when ones brain chemistry is out of whack and ones income is so low that questions like, "If I can still only afford one of the three next year, should I pick shelter, food, or health insurance?" are not fanciful hypotheticals.

Drugs and help cost more than I'll be able to afford when I lose family coverage next year, so there isn't really much time left to sort it out. I am a very high strung, extremely unhappy bloke. While that is not an objectively good justification for neglecting oneself, finding ways to cope with the day-to-day realities of life is sometimes the best one can realistically hope to succeed in. I'll start caring about things like hygiene if/when I can safely leave survival mode.

I'm sorry you had an abusive childhood, but that has nothing to do with regular bathing.  I somehow doubt you're so poor that you can't afford to shower.  Hating yourself is also no excuse and you only reaffirm it by having the attitude you have.

Of course it does - just not along a line of thought that tends to make sense to people who are not already mentally ill. Enough folks have treated me badly on enough occasions that it seems pretty futile to try and win over others' goodwill. The typical person seems inclined to dislike me quite a bit if they learn much about what I think, what I value, and the nature of my customs so what? It is fair for them to demand I assimilate and conform as if I am somehow inferior or on a lesser plane of humanity? No. Society made me this way far more so than I did it to myself and, although there are things I can gradually do to change it, about all I have to say to people who think this is something one fundamentally chose to pull onto their self and then whine about is, "[Inks] you." Each of us is nothing more than a product of their circumstances, who can easily have their mind twisted into ways of thought that seem reasonable and logical to some but not to others. Both cause and effect and life in general are complicated like that, Snow Guy.

As for income, I have $558 per month available after taxes and am not eligible for any form of state assistance.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

second time in past month in which wee-bey gif is only reaction. atlas, you fail me.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Redalgo, as someone who has had plenty of bad fortune, the amount of blaming everything and everybody else but yourself for your current problems goes too far.

Maybe everybody else did put you in this place and make you like this... stop using it as an excuse to remain in that rut.

Why don't you move to a state where you can qualify for some assistance?  With that income, you'd qualify for both SNAP and medical assistance here, and there are tons of services to help pay for rent and utilities and even emergency cash for groceries (vouchers, basically)... so you wouldn't even need to have tons of money saved up to make the move.

Set aside some money and buy a bus ticket and move.

Get an apartment, a job, and bathe.  I know I know.. so much conformity and so many social norms... but you'll feel better, I promise!

[TNF]

[Zanas]

You folks all need to grow up a bit and start trying to understand each other. And have a little open-mindedness.

As someone who used to have the same personal construction of my opinion of hygiene as Redalgo just expressed (yay, I'm French, haha), I feel the need to tell you a few things.

I did only shower once every one to three weeks at some time. I was in high school, I didn't feel the need to socialize, though I did have friends, but no girlfriends, and I was building a quite dogmatic set of mind about nearly everything in life. My construction was quite literally the same as Redalgo. The main points :
- bad odour is unpleasant, but not a threat to others. Others are mostly unpleasant to me in other ways, I don't feel the need to be pleasant to them by smelling good.
- washing oneself only once in a few weeks, while still living in a salubrious Western home, while still changing clothes every few days, is not a threat to my health (it's not, really).
- I don't like water.

Now, it lasted 2-3 years. What stopped it ? I met a girl, online. I talked to her, and when we agreed to meet, I obviously wasn't dumb enough to apply my set of beliefs on personal hygiene, and I showered. Then we got out together on a distance relationship for two years, when I basically kept my rythm and showered each time we were seeing each other, every fortnight or so.

Then we moved together, and it was then that it changed. I realised that I was changing it, not for her, but for me. I was the one wanting to feel fresh and a bit alluring. She didn't have to ask me for it, it was natural. Plus, lack of personal hygien can be a threat to your health and your partner's if you are engaging in sexual intercourse, that one is true.

So, try to all not be so judgmental, try to get inside your head that some people might not live the same life you live, might not walk the same path, but might not be inferior or crazy or depressed by doing so. People can change, or can decide not to change. You just have to try to understand why, or at least accept it.

These were my two cents, so Redalgo, I support you, and have faith.

Oh, and now that I am indeed working and spending nearly an hour in the metro each day, I do indeed feel the need to wash myself and take a shower nearly every day, sometimes skipping one day. It's just because I feel I get filthy, which I didn't feel when I used to walk 5 min to my high school each day and spend most of the time in my bedroom with no other company than my computer.

Geez, grow up kids.