Reminder that Orson Scott Card is still a crazy right-wing bigot

[Lurker]

Depends on the issue. Anti gay stuff, sure, but anti-Christian stuff on the other hand...

Do you honestly believe that the two are equivalent? The "anti-Christian stuff" is basically non-existent in US politics outside a few corners of the internet. Please mention any leading politician on the the left who are anti-Christian at all (let alone to the extent that many  leading Reapublicans can be openly anti-gay).


Edit: I just read Card's column and... wow. While I knew that he was a gay-basher, I didn't know just how insanely right-wing he was on other issues. The man is clearly a paranoid, dangerous wingnut. Let's just hope that his vicious hate-mongering does not inspire potential Breiviks among his fans.

[afleitch]

Equally hateful, but not equally damaging to contemporary society or individuals. While Christian bashing is not exactly helpful for anything, you can criticize the culture and its effects easily without being hateful. The Christian in America also has a much larger emotional safety net than the homosexual who cannot change and is more likely to feel hopelessly isolated and ashamed. I've never heard of teenagers killing themselves because of bullying due to their inescapable belief in the Jesus. The impact of real hatred towards homosexuals is far deeper and much more scarring. To think otherwise in a western country is astoundingly shallow.

Apparently you don't live here. What you just said is very false.

It's broadly true. Someones sexuality is an inherent and integral part of their being. Opposition to that is as pointless as chastising someone for their skin colour, height or gender (all of which still happens sadly) Christianity is a faith. It is a philosophy. It is a belief system. It can be entered into, changed while being subscribed to it, left or not cared about by the person who subscribes to it. While telling someone that you do not like their philosophy or do not agree with it can be hurtful, it is not comparable to condemning someone for their sexuality particularly if their condemnation of an LGBT person comes from their faith. They can re-evaluate their philosophy, LGBT cannot re-evaluate their sexuality.

[tik 🪀✨]

Equally hateful, but not equally damaging to contemporary society or individuals. While Christian bashing is not exactly helpful for anything, you can criticize the culture and its effects easily without being hateful. The Christian in America also has a much larger emotional safety net than the homosexual who cannot change and is more likely to feel hopelessly isolated and ashamed. I've never heard of teenagers killing themselves because of bullying due to their inescapable belief in the Jesus. The impact of real hatred towards homosexuals is far deeper and much more scarring. To think otherwise in a western country is astoundingly shallow.

Apparently you don't live here. What you just said is very false.

I took a fair while to post what I posted, despite its relative brevity, so I'm a little bit annoyed that you didn't take the time you make more of an effort than "Actually, well, no, because nothing in particular besides that you don't live here so you don't know."

I do not live there currently, no. I grew up in America, lived the vast majority of my life there, my family lives there, and I go back regularly to see them (and, I admit, because I love being there during election season). I am an American. I grew up in a very Christian family and I was a true believer (albeit one who was always questioning the rest of the group).

I am also now a non-believer. And, I have always been a bisexual and a sexual deviant. I know what caused me more psychological trauma on a day by day basis, and it wasn't admitting to my family, friends, coworkers, or strangers that I was or wasn't a Christian. I know how it feels to be marginalized while also feeling accepted. I know how dread feels physically, emotionally, and psychologically. I have never felt dread from someone finding out that I believed in Jesus, or that I no longer believe in Jesus.

I'm not everyone, of course. But, when I have to walk home late at night on the streets, what scares me more - that I will get the sh**t kicked out of me because somehow some asshole knows I may be a f****t, or that somehow some asshole knows I may be a Christian?

Duh.

[ingemann]

Usual I find the whole calling for boycot, because the author at some point have said something, idiotic. But I get it in this case, Card is not just your average homophobe, he's the guy where other homophobes stop up and say "wow that's insane", at the same time he finance anti-gay organisation and referendrums; if there are a example of author you should boycot over his political opinions Card is the guy.

[ingemann]

It's strange to me that Card is such a bigot-Speaker for the Dead is one of the most tolerant books I've read.

Card seem to have gone from a sane and relative tolerant (it was not that he like gays before, but he seem to have had a live and let live attitude before) person to a complete lunatic (political and religious speaking). At the same time the quality of his book seem to have fallen at same time. People say that it was the death of his son which started the descend into insanity.

[Beet]

Usually I'm very wary of boycotting any form of entertainment for political reasons. The reason I won't be seeing the movie is probably a little different than most. I read Ender's Game back in 2007 or so and something deeply disturbed me about it, particularly the ending. It seemed like a glorification of genocide, a fascist war book masquerading as something very different. In any case, I probably couldn't analyze it in detail now (and Speaker for the Dead and other books may well be tolerant, I couldn't get past the pit my stomach after Ender's Game) but I remember the feeling I had then, how it kept me up at night and I'd rather avoid it now. The revelations about Card's political beliefs were totally unknown to me then but they don't come as any surprise.

[DC Al Fine]

Usually I'm very wary of boycotting any form of entertainment for political reasons. The reason I won't be seeing the movie is probably a little different than most. I read Ender's Game back in 2007 or so and something deeply disturbed me about it, particularly the ending. It seemed like a glorification of genocide, a fascist war book masquerading as something very different. In any case, I probably couldn't analyze it in detail now (and Speaker for the Dead and other books may well be tolerant, I couldn't get past the pit my stomach after Ender's Game) but I remember the feeling I had then, how it kept me up at night and I'd rather avoid it now. The revelations about Card's political beliefs were totally unknown to me then but they don't come as any surprise.

A large part of Speaker for the Dead is devoted to Ender's guilt over wiping another species. He has this whole quest to restart the race etc.

[Beet]

Usually I'm very wary of boycotting any form of entertainment for political reasons. The reason I won't be seeing the movie is probably a little different than most. I read Ender's Game back in 2007 or so and something deeply disturbed me about it, particularly the ending. It seemed like a glorification of genocide, a fascist war book masquerading as something very different. In any case, I probably couldn't analyze it in detail now (and Speaker for the Dead and other books may well be tolerant, I couldn't get past the pit my stomach after Ender's Game) but I remember the feeling I had then, how it kept me up at night and I'd rather avoid it now. The revelations about Card's political beliefs were totally unknown to me then but they don't come as any surprise.

A large part of Speaker for the Dead is devoted to Ender's guilt over wiping another species. He has this whole quest to restart the race etc.

Well since the book is called "Speaker for the Dead" that's not a big surprise. But I seriously doubt that further discussion of the plot is going to change my mind. Sometimes it's better for the dehumanization of the enemy to just be upfront and simple, like the orcs in LOTR.

Blade Runner actually did a really good job at the "enemy is actually human and sympathetic" turn-around, IMO. It's hard to say why but it did. Part of it may be that pain is just shown as pain and not necessarily a part of the protagonist's guilt complex.

[ingemann]

Usually I'm very wary of boycotting any form of entertainment for political reasons. The reason I won't be seeing the movie is probably a little different than most. I read Ender's Game back in 2007 or so and something deeply disturbed me about it, particularly the ending. It seemed like a glorification of genocide, a fascist war book masquerading as something very different. In any case, I probably couldn't analyze it in detail now (and Speaker for the Dead and other books may well be tolerant, I couldn't get past the pit my stomach after Ender's Game) but I remember the feeling I had then, how it kept me up at night and I'd rather avoid it now. The revelations about Card's political beliefs were totally unknown to me then but they don't come as any surprise.

Really? I mean... spoiler







...Ender commit the genocide only to find out, that the race he murdered was not evil and had desperate tried to find a way to communicate with humanity to negotiate a peace. Afterward Ender began a millenium long journey to try to reestablish a new hive for the last queen, and spread the tale that he was a villain not a hero. The morale of the story was that the genocide was wrong, but the War was fundamental a result of a communication failure.

If you want people who justify genocide, you should rather look at the books of Alan Dean Foster (Dirge), Heinlein (Starship Trooper) and David Weber and Steve White (Shiva Option).