Am I pro-life or pro-choice?

[Thank you for being a friend...]

I've always had a hard time deciding what I am.  I really detest labels.

This has always been the one issue where I don't have a clear position, and I think I'm not alone either.

Maybe you can help me figure it out:

Here are my views:

1. I believe that every child is a gift from God and deserves the chance to live, no matter how they were created.  This includes a child conceived through tragic circumstances such as rape or incest.  It wasn't their fault to be born that way, so why talk about it as if it makes a difference?

2. I think that feminists have forgotten one very important thing: Half of the babies that will be aborted are girls.  What if one of those baby girls is meant to become a pioneer in women's rights?  No one will ever know because she was never given the chance.

3. I'm horrified by the Kermit Gosnell tragedy.  This leads me to believe that abortion is infanticide.

4. I find abortion to be extremely unfair, morally objectionable, and a sad, painful scar on our society.

5. I'm concerned that shutting down all of the clinics would lead to a rise in back alley abortions, especially among poor young women, which would kill both the mother and the baby.

Yet despite all of this... I am a Democrat and hold progressive stances on every issue, and I consider views on abortion to be also be a key part of the progressive tradition of giving voice to the voiceless and fighting for the little people.

So I'm very confused.  Am I a pro-life Democrat and if I am, am I really alone?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

You seem to be one of those "personally pro-life" folks who detest abortion, but see government getting involved in the issue as a net-negative to society.  So I guess "reluctantly pro-choice?"

[Miles]

So I'm very confused.  Am I a pro-life Democrat and if I am, am I really alone?

Nope, join the club!

[badgate]

How can you believe that "every child is a gift from God" but not believe that every aborted pregnancy in the past wasn't part of "God's plan," as they say? That would invalidate #2 of your list.


On #3, I think you need to refer yourself to #5. Look at why those women ended up in Kermit Gosnell's clinic. Ask yourself, would making family planning clinics which provide abortions numerous and free of charge create more abortions than it would prevent tragedies like Kermit Gosnell?


Bear in mind that you're getting feedback from a non-practicing Lutheran, which is the Lutheran way of saying "athiest"

[RedSLC]

Pro-choice does not necessarily mean pro-abortion. It simply means that you support legal access to abortion for people who want it. There are a lot of people who personally oppose abortion, but don't want to deny others access to it. By the looks of it, this is where you fall.

So don't worry, there are many other people (dems included) that share your views on the subject.

[tmthforu94]

How can you believe that "every child is a gift from God" but not believe that every aborted pregnancy in the past wasn't part of "God's plan," as they say? That would invalidate #2 of your list.

I find that to be a weak argument - you could use that argument to justify any action.

[badgate]

How can you believe that "every child is a gift from God" but not believe that every aborted pregnancy in the past wasn't part of "God's plan," as they say? That would invalidate #2 of your list.

I find that to be a weak argument - you could use that argument to justify any action.

Is that a fault of my argument or religion itself, though?

[H. Ross Peron]

So I'm very confused.  Am I a pro-life Democrat and if I am, am I really alone?

Nope, join the club!

Seconded.

[bedstuy]

Democrats can be pro-life.  We're a big tent party. 

But, if you're a pro-life democrat, you should try to steer the pro-life movement towards sanity.  For example,

-Advocate for access to the morning after pill
-Support universal healthcare and funding for family planning and contraception
-Don't carry around giant pictures of aborted fetuses

Thanks.

[Beet]

I am pro choice because I have never seen and likely never will see a newly fertilized embryo, whether implanted or not, as a "child." The notion that the unimplanted embryo has the moral status of a full person seems ludicrous to me, and as does the implanted embryo. At some point during the fetal stage and before birth, a person capable of consciousness is created. However abortions during the first 12-13 weeks, where about 90% of abortions take place, do not trouble me. Late term abortions do trouble me, however many of the Republican restrictions on abortion will only have the effect of pushing them into the late term and of pushing women into the hands of people like Gosnell. By attacking legitimate abortion providers, states create space for predatory ones like Gosnell to operate.

Experience also heavily suggests that the main opposition to abortion is religiously motivated. In the U.S., the religious right continues to lead opposition to abortion, even when they hide their reasons behind secular rhetoric. If they could directly cite the Bible, they would, and they do in friendly environments. In largely secular countries, abortion remains uncontroversial. That is not because people in those countries condone the murder of babies. It's because they don't think their religious doctrine is telling what to think. And the unfortunate fact is that all 3 Abrahamic religions are heavily patriarchal, so it is unfair to impose them on secular society when feminists are objecting to the fact that it violates womens' bodily integrity. IMO the feminists have the most accurate understanding of the abortion debate because they accurately perceive the root cause of the "life begins at conception" movement is religious and patriarchal.

[Likely Voter]

Why the need to find a label for yourself. Pro-life and pro-choice are silly labels anyway. In the end it comes down to how you feel personally and what kind of regulations over abortions should the government have, and what other policies (sex ed, contraception availability, etc) should be in place to reduce the demand for abortions

[tmthforu94]

How can you believe that "every child is a gift from God" but not believe that every aborted pregnancy in the past wasn't part of "God's plan," as they say? That would invalidate #2 of your list.

I find that to be a weak argument - you could use that argument to justify any action.

Is that a fault of my argument or religion itself, though?

I think it's the wrong interpretation of a religious argument.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

 “I oppose abortion, personally. I don’t like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception.” -John Kerry

Of course they still denied him communion for being pro-choice.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I am pro choice because I have never seen and likely never will see a newly fertilized embryo, whether implanted or not, as a "child." The notion that the unimplanted embryo has the moral status of a full person seems ludicrous to me, and as does the implanted embryo. At some point during the fetal stage and before birth, a person capable of consciousness is created. However abortions during the first 12-13 weeks, where about 90% of abortions take place, do not trouble me. Late term abortions do trouble me, however many of the Republican restrictions on abortion will only have the effect of pushing them into the late term and of pushing women into the hands of people like Gosnell. By attacking legitimate abortion providers, states create space for predatory ones like Gosnell to operate.

Experience also heavily suggests that the main opposition to abortion is religiously motivated. In the U.S., the religious right continues to lead opposition to abortion, even when they hide their reasons behind secular rhetoric. If they could directly cite the Bible, they would, and they do in friendly environments. In largely secular countries, abortion remains uncontroversial. That is not because people in those countries condone the murder of babies. It's because they don't think their religious doctrine is telling what to think. And the unfortunate fact is that all 3 Abrahamic religions are heavily patriarchal, so it is unfair to impose them on secular society when feminists are objecting to the fact that it violates womens' bodily integrity. IMO the feminists have the most accurate understanding of the abortion debate because they accurately perceive the root cause of the "life begins at conception" movement is religious and patriarchal.

What is so patriarchal about Abrahamic religions that every position held mainly by people from these religions must therefore be patriarchal? Isn't it possible that religious people are more resistant to the contemporary ideology supporting abortion rights for reasons that have to do with beliefs about sanctity, responsibility, sacrifice, teleology, ontology, etc. ?

[Beet]

What is so patriarchal about Abrahamic religions that every position held mainly by people from these religions must therefore be patriarchal? Isn't it possible that religious people are more resistant to the contemporary ideology supporting abortion rights for reasons that have to do with beliefs about sanctity, responsibility, sacrifice, teleology, ontology, etc. ?

Well I never said that. After all, I am from one of these religions myself, although in a way so far disconnected from any institutions that it's meaningless to label me as a representative of Christianity in any but the most fundamental way.

Sanctity, responsibility, sacrifice, (and potentially but not necessarily monotheistic interpretations of teleology and ontology) all exist in secular societies too, but you don't see a groundswell of anti-abortion activism in them as you do here. Look around the world at where abortion is banned and it's generally in religiously conservative Muslim or Catholic countries. The Dutch actually feel much as I do... although they overwhelmingly support legalized abortion in the first trimester and it's not a big political issue in the country, they also overwhelmingly oppose it in the third trimester.

[tik 🪀✨]

Like most pro-choice people, you're anti-abortion. It's something pro-life people forget all the time.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, there aren't many people who think abortions are the greatest thing in the world. The question is whether or not banning abortion is, all in all, a good idea for society - and the answer is unambiguously no.

[politicus]

1. I believe that every child is a gift from God and deserves the chance to live, no matter how they were created.  This includes a child conceived through tragic circumstances such as rape or incest.  It wasn't their fault to be born that way, so why talk about it as if it makes a difference?

because it makes a tremendous difference to the mother.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Like most pro-choice people, you're anti-abortion. It's something pro-life people forget all the time.

     Some of them do not forget it, but rather ignore it in order to strawman the pro-choice crowd.

[Torie]

Putting aside the second paragraph, which is a bit heavy for me as to religious motivations and backlash, I agree with Beet's take. The problem is that the protocols to "manage" late term abortions, and when they are acceptable, and when not, as a practical matter gets complicated to structure and implement.