SENATE BILL: Atlasia-Canada Common Market Agreement (passed)

[Sbane]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well this is a fine mess to be sure.

First off Procedurally:

1. Napoleon's amendment as far as I see didn't give clear intent as to how it changed the text and as Nix pointed out, is well within the purview of being canned for that reason.

I urge Duke to deem Napoleon's post out of order and begin a final vote as soon as possible in accordance with Senate rules.

If debate having expired is seen as insufficient justification this action, Section 2.1 grants the PPT the power to deem amendments functionally impractical if they do not indicate how they modify the text of the target legislation.

2. The rules for votes are that debate shall continue as long as no periods longer then 24 hours have lapsed without debate at which point any Senator may call for a fianl vote. Debate may be cut off early throug a cloture vote or through unanimous consent request. Nix called for a fianl vote here:

I call for a final vote.

Then comes this post by Duke:

24 hours to object from when Nix called for it, friends. If not, the vote will begin tonight!

I don't know what to make of this. If this were UC, then once the 24 hours lapsed, a vote would be open and amendments offered would be out of order. But Duke didn't request unanimous consent to suspend the rules. He did give 24 hours to object and that is the only way that objections would play a role, therefore I guess UC can be implied. However it is pretty hypocritcal to bitch about amenders being fast and loose with the amendments they write, when you are fast and loose with the rather important procedures.

This thread is VP administered adn the VP is superiod to the PPT therefore what Duke says go in this thread, provided it is at least somewhat defensible under the OSPR. . In most circumstnaces if I were in Duke's position however, I would have called a halt to the fianl vote under the appropriate provisions (you can look them up I don't have time I got another damn storm coming again), and considered the amendment. But I understand the desire to rush bills, I am rushing them too and therefore I understand Duke's unwillingness to do so.

Second Off on the Merits.

I think Napoleon does have a reasonable point and I wish that his amendment had been offered earlier and with the changes clearly stated.

[Napoleon]

The changes were stated in a separate post.

I don't really blame Duke; it was apparent before he even took ofrice that others were calling the shots.

The proponents were hostile to any discussion from the start anyway so oh well, let them have what they want.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Going forward NAppy, I would recommending removing the change indicators from previous amendments (such as the bolding at the bottom from y previous amendment) and then inserting (some form of indication of the changes you made. That draws the eyes attention to the changes being made. And remember, exclusion doesn't entail removal unless specified, an amendment to the OSPR after that confusion we had in 2011 that caused the title to be amended out. Also, text boxes wouldn't hurt either.

I wouldn't say that Nappy, Siren's concerns came out of nowhere and got addressed.

I am really torn at this point. I like this agreement, but I would prefer the regions were given a choice or a say. I might end up being the Rand Paul of this debate (support the effort but end up voting no in the end because of unresolved issues).

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

As someone who could very well end up disenfranchised by "giving the regions a say" in the form of an opt-out, I'm not in favour of Senator Napoleon's amendment. I would prefer seeing this whole bill transform into an amendment that the people could vote on if we're suddenly interested in other input. And that ain't gonna happen. So I'm fine with it as is.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

This bill now has enough votes to pass. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Considering the present legislature wanting "elbow room" all the time, I don't think the IDS would opt out.

Since it is basically a fait accompli, AYE.


My hope was that if enough peopel voted nay then a solution could be imposed to the issue, but that not being the case...

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Aye

[Napoleon]

Aye

As someone who could very well end up disenfranchised by "giving the regions a say" in the form of an opt-out, I'm not in favour of Senator Napoleon's amendment. I would prefer seeing this whole bill transform into an amendment that the people could vote on if we're suddenly interested in other input. And that ain't gonna happen. So I'm fine with it as is.

It's not really about "giving the regions a say" or making me happy; I think there's a clear constitutional violation and ignoring it doesn't do any of us any good.

Why are people complaining that I introduced an amendment once I got off of my plane? Maybe, if the vote was opened when we were told it would be, then I wouldn't have been able to propose anything? But as it is, the Senate has always welcomed amendments up until the final vote began, and sometimes even during. The way this has been pushed through with little regard to any concerns is disappointing. I'd like to be able to vote Aye, but I'll let my vote stand in protest. This is not how this chamber was meant to be run.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The bill has passed. It is now presented to Marokai for his signature!

[Marokai Backbeat]

Thank you all.

x Marokai Blue