Christopher Dorner

[Beet]

I'm surprised there's not a thread on this here yet.

It upsets me that some people are supporting him and that it has taken this to bring attention to the grievances that this man had. Being treated unfairly by your employer is no excuse to kill innocent people, and I think it sends the wrong message when people piggyback on this incident to address racism in the LAPD. It basically saying "Yeah, sometimes you gotta kill innocent people to get your message heard."

I'm also disturbed that some people say they identify with him because he makes pop culture references in his manifesto and "seems normal". He's not any different than mass shooters who supposedly had mental illness. Heck he may have had mental illness. Just because you "seem normal" and are atuned to pop culture, that should not mean that you get a free pass for mass murder. Other mass shooters probably also had grievances in their own heads, but because they seemed different and unrelatable, no one is apologizing for them.

[Napoleon]

He admitted to having mental illness; he wanted to donate his brain to science to have it studied but the f'n pigs had him burned to a crisp.

What everyone is ignoring, tragically, is the military aspect of it. I would have thought after the Chris Kyle killing that we'd be more willing to talk about our military's effect on the men that are serving our country...guess not.

I think it sends the wrong message when people piggyback on this incident to address racism in the LAPD. It basically saying "Yeah, sometimes you gotta kill innocent people to get your message heard."

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

[Beet]

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

Horrible, just horrible. The way to "reassure" the public that the police department is fair is to release transparent information about the department's practices, not reopen the case of a dead mass murderer. I knew that they had done this and could not more strongly disagree with it.

Honestly I do not care that he burned. (I thought he shot himself). He threw away his life. I hope his last thought before he died was his victims.

[Napoleon]

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

Horrible, just horrible. The way to "reassure" the public that the police department is fair is to release transparent information about the department's practices, not reopen the case of a dead mass murderer. I knew that they had done this and could not more strongly disagree with it.

Honestly I do not care that he burned. (I thought he shot himself). He threw away his life. I hope his last thought before he died was his victims.

No offense, Beet, I usually agree with you, but what's horrible is having the police murder someone.

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Rights of the accused are in the Constitution for a reason. Dorner had a right to a fair trial. I don't think the police have the right to serve as judge, jury and executioner, no matter how horrific the crimes committed were, and how certain we are that the suspect committed them.

[King]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

[Beet]

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

Horrible, just horrible. The way to "reassure" the public that the police department is fair is to release transparent information about the department's practices, not reopen the case of a dead mass murderer. I knew that they had done this and could not more strongly disagree with it.

Honestly I do not care that he burned. (I thought he shot himself). He threw away his life. I hope his last thought before he died was his victims.

No offense, Beet, I usually agree with you, but what's horrible is having the police murder someone.

You are peddling a conspiracy theory that the police set the place on fire to kill him, because they wanted him dead. When you exchange fire with the cops, you are dead, period. I could walk up to a courthouse and pull out a fake BB gun and just point it at a cop, and if I don't drop it in time and he kills me, then it's considered justified. But this guy killed 4 innocent people, including police officers, and still wouldn't surrender, and you're outraged that a fire the police set to drive him out may have resulted in his death? What was he expecting? Do you really think he expected/wanted to live at that point? I think he knew that his actions would result in his own death and he took them anyway.

[Beet]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

Please show me a film where one of those guys murdered uninvolved civilians who weren't threatening him in cold blood.

[Napoleon]

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

Horrible, just horrible. The way to "reassure" the public that the police department is fair is to release transparent information about the department's practices, not reopen the case of a dead mass murderer. I knew that they had done this and could not more strongly disagree with it.

Honestly I do not care that he burned. (I thought he shot himself). He threw away his life. I hope his last thought before he died was his victims.

No offense, Beet, I usually agree with you, but what's horrible is having the police murder someone.

You are peddling a conspiracy theory that the police set the place on fire to kill him, because they wanted him dead. When you exchange fire with the cops, you are dead, period. I could walk up to a courthouse and pull out a fake BB gun and just point it at a cop, and if I don't drop it in time and he kills me, then it's considered justified. But this guy killed 4 innocent people, including police officers, and still wouldn't surrender, and you're outraged that a fire the police set to drive him out may have resulted in his death? What was he expecting? Do you really think he expected/wanted to live at that point? I think he knew that his actions would result in his own death and he took them anyway.

I'm not peddling any conspiracy theory. They had the man cornered and surrounded.

[Kitteh]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

Please show me a film where one of those guys murdered uninvolved civilians who weren't threatening him in cold blood.

3/7 innocent citizens shot were by police. Just pointing that out.

Anyway, I don't agree with what he did, but I strongly agree with the issues he had. Ultimately, the LAPD (and police departments across the nation) is guilty of far more easily preventable civilian deaths every year than Dorner was.

[Napoleon]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

Please show me a film where one of those guys murdered uninvolved civilians who weren't threatening him in cold blood.

The best one: Unforgiven.

[bgwah]

real life Sergeant Doakes

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

This is a very sad story-while I cannot ever come close to even thinking of justifying Dorner's actions, it is quite clear that he was driven to do it. There are two types of people-givers and takers. When you give, and give, and give, and finally take, it seems those who take get mad that you venture into their corner. This situation can be applied to the workplace, high school, the military, or even the family.

Chris Dorner’s mental state deteriorated to the point that he thought he was damned if he did, and damned if didn’t. He also lost his faith, which likely fueled his hatred. It doesn’t take a genius to know the guy was a paranoid schizophrenic after reading his manifesto.

His advice to Hillary and Christie was hysterical. His commentary on celebrities, especially Charlie Sheen, was entertaining as well. If this were not so serious of a situation, and had he not gone through with his threats, I’d think this manifesto was a funny prank.

In short, Dorner lived a life in which people apparently used and abused with him. It’s a sad situation, and like Sandy Hook, and Aurora, it is a clear reminder to open up a dialogue on mental illness within the United States.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

Please show me a film where one of those guys murdered uninvolved civilians who weren't threatening him in cold blood.

You need to some more movies. This happened on 24 (a terrible neocon propoganda show that I once loved) quite a bit.

[Beet]

Basically?? The LAPD reopened his case! It clearly is a way to get your voice heard, for better or worse.

Horrible, just horrible. The way to "reassure" the public that the police department is fair is to release transparent information about the department's practices, not reopen the case of a dead mass murderer. I knew that they had done this and could not more strongly disagree with it.

Honestly I do not care that he burned. (I thought he shot himself). He threw away his life. I hope his last thought before he died was his victims.

No offense, Beet, I usually agree with you, but what's horrible is having the police murder someone.

You are peddling a conspiracy theory that the police set the place on fire to kill him, because they wanted him dead. When you exchange fire with the cops, you are dead, period. I could walk up to a courthouse and pull out a fake BB gun and just point it at a cop, and if I don't drop it in time and he kills me, then it's considered justified. But this guy killed 4 innocent people, including police officers, and still wouldn't surrender, and you're outraged that a fire the police set to drive him out may have resulted in his death? What was he expecting? Do you really think he expected/wanted to live at that point? I think he knew that his actions would result in his own death and he took them anyway.

I'm not peddling any conspiracy theory. They had the man cornered and surrounded.

That doesn't mean they could have taken him alive.

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Lol. Lots of innocent citizens are shot by the police. If this guy was taking out one of those police officers, I would have more sympathy for him. But a random couple, and then random officers who happened to come across him? No. The only reason the "7" is here, is because the other 3 people were only shot as a byproduct of the chaos Dorner created for his own little pity party.

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Right, so it's open season on the cops, their families, and families' acquaintances.

I am no lover of the cops, but this one makes me quite sympathetic to them.

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I haven't seen that film in quite some time, but from the plot summary, they weren't uninvolved. They had mutiliated a prostitute, which while certainly doesn't justify death, is one of those horrendous crimes-against-women that are especially heinous in Westerns.

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First of all, it's a aterrible neocon propaganda show, as you mentioned. Secondly, I saw 3 seasons of it.

[Napoleon]

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I haven't seen that film in quite some time, but from the plot summary, they weren't uninvolved. They had mutiliated a prostitute, which while certainly doesn't justify death, is one of those horrendous crimes-against-women that are especially heinous in Westerns.

Only one did that. Many died. I highly recommend you watch it again- great film.

[Beet]

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Just to clear, Dorner is not unique in this. This happens to thousands of people every year. Most of them manage to get through it without killing others. Some of them only kill themselves, and the injustice that was done to them is forgotten in silence. I would rather shed a light on some more of those cases than to glorify this maniac.

[Eraserhead]

Can't imagine his story won't be turned into movie at some point down the road.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

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Just to clear, Dorner is not unique in this. This happens to thousands of people every year. Most of them manage to get through it without killing others. Some of them only kill themselves, and the injustice that was done to them is forgotten in silence. I would rather shed a light on some more of those cases than to glorify this maniac.

Agreed, but I can't help but feel that this incident happened as an aftershock of Sandy Hook to send a message. We should not glorify Dorner obviously, but his issues serious need to be looked at instead of being thrown away as the ranting of a mad clown, which I fear will happen.

[Beet]

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Just to clear, Dorner is not unique in this. This happens to thousands of people every year. Most of them manage to get through it without killing others. Some of them only kill themselves, and the injustice that was done to them is forgotten in silence. I would rather shed a light on some more of those cases than to glorify this maniac.

Agreed, but I can't help but feel that this incident happened as an aftershock of Sandy Hook to send a message. We should not glorify Dorner obviously, but his issues serious need to be looked at instead of being thrown away as the ranting of a mad clown, which I fear will happen.

The issues of police abuse need to be looked at on a systematic basis independent of Dorner's personal grievances. The latter should not be looked at, as they are no longer relevant.

[King]

The message of the Dorner incident is the typical plot of almost every Clint Eastwood, Bruce Willis, and Denzel Washington movie ever made.    This happening doesn't give anybody any new ideas.

Please show me a film where one of those guys murdered uninvolved civilians who weren't threatening him in cold blood.

That's beside the point.  It's not the innocent civilian part that people are latching onto in their admiration of Dorner, it's the "wronged man seeking revenge on a corrupt establishment," which is something Americans have loved even in its wholesome Mr. Smith Goes to Washington days.

[Kitteh]

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Lol. Lots of innocent citizens are shot by the police. If this guy was taking out one of those police officers, I would have more sympathy for him. But a random couple, and then random officers who happened to come across him? No. The only reason the "7" is here, is because the other 3 people were only shot as a byproduct of the chaos Dorner created for his own little pity party.

It's not as simple as saying "if Dorner hadn't gone on a rampage, then those three people wouldn't have been shot by police". Yes, that's true. But if the police hadn't been so quick to use massive lethal force then possibly those three wouldn't have been shot either. And if the LAPD hadn't dismissed Dorner for calling out another officer's abuse of a civilian, this whole thing wouldn't have happened.

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Right, so it's open season on the cops, their families, and families' acquaintances.

I am no lover of the cops, but this one makes me quite sympathetic to them.

Straw man argument. Like I said, I don't agree at all with what Dorner did. Please stop pretending people arguing that Dorner's concerns were valid are arguing that Dorner's actions were justified. This is blatant misrepresentation of what we're saying.

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Just to clear, Dorner is not unique in this. This happens to thousands of people every year. Most of them manage to get through it without killing others. Some of them only kill themselves, and the injustice that was done to them is forgotten in silence. I would rather shed a light on some more of those cases than to glorify this maniac.

Agreed, but I can't help but feel that this incident happened as an aftershock of Sandy Hook to send a message. We should not glorify Dorner obviously, but his issues serious need to be looked at instead of being thrown away as the ranting of a mad clown, which I fear will happen.

The issues of police abuse need to be looked at on a systematic basis independent of Dorner's personal grievances. The latter should not be looked at, as they are no longer relevant.

That's absolutely true, but this is the case with everything. A particular incident brings light to a longstanding but not really noticed problem. There's no particular reason Sandy Hook should have triggered a massive gun control given that many more total people are killed every few weeks in smaller shootings, but it was one particularly gruesome incident that caught people's attention and made people pay attention to the issue of gun violence. This is a similar thing, it's not that Dorner's case in particular deserves attention, it's that it is a particular incident that reflects on a larger problem.

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Just to clear, Dorner is not unique in this. This happens to thousands of people every year. Most of them manage to get through it without killing others. Some of them only kill themselves, and the injustice that was done to them is forgotten in silence. I would rather shed a light on some more of those cases than to glorify this maniac.

Agreed, but I can't help but feel that this incident happened as an aftershock of Sandy Hook to send a message. We should not glorify Dorner obviously, but his issues serious need to be looked at instead of being thrown away as the ranting of a mad clown, which I fear will happen.

That's really exactly my fear too, and why I don't think political shootings are effective even if they are justified, because it makes it all too easy to dismiss someone as a lunatic.

But let's be realistic here, how much attention would Dorner's case have gotten if he just staged a protest, or got the ACLU and the NAACP to make some noise on his behalf? Not nearly as much as it did now. Again, that does not justify his actions, but it's extremely ignorant to say "he should have just protested peacefully" as if that would have had any sort of significant impact whatsoever.

[Beet]

That's absolutely true, but this is the case with everything. A particular incident brings light to a longstanding but not really noticed problem. There's no particular reason Sandy Hook should have triggered a massive gun control given that many more total people are killed every few weeks in smaller shootings, but it was one particularly gruesome incident that caught people's attention and made people pay attention to the issue of gun violence. This is a similar thing, it's not that Dorner's case in particular deserves attention, it's that it is a particular incident that reflects on a larger problem.

I agree with that, but a more appropriate analogy would be if Adam Lanza had shot up Sandy Hook in order to stimulate support for gun control. Had that been his motivation, then it would have been much more problematic that Sandy Hook triggered new support for gun control.

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That's exactly what makes me so uncomfortable about this whole case. He should have proceeded peacefully. There are also other ways of drawing attention (granted, not as much attention) besides mass shooting or going to the ACLU.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Pretty much says it all: http://www.theonion.com/articles/los-angeles-on-high-alert-as-lapd-back-on-regular,31306/

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I guess it's in bad form to suggest he DIAF?