"Middle Class"

[Person Man]

Of course  Opebo will say that almost no one is middle class and JJ will say that anyone could consider themselves middle class but here is a little peice on MSN about it. As a pragmatic and practical Democrat (at least on 1950s style issues), I agree with it.

http://money.msn.com/investing/c_galleryregular.aspx?cp-documentid=250284193

Basically, someone who has a 3 bedroom house in Texas or nice 1 or 2 bedroom condo in California, makes 20 or 25 bucks an hour, or maybe 30 or 35 if they have a spouse and kids, doesn't have to shop at Walmart but not always at the mall,  can fly coach to Florida once a year, can go to the doctor and can contribute a couple of hundred dollars to their basic long-term savings accounts each month. Politically, probably voted for Obama unless they were pro-life.  Basically someone who is about average but much  more likely somewhat more than a little less.

Any overriding of this parastatement can be used to more or less describe any group in the US unless you don't want it to.  

Though, I feel that the average young person in college probably wants to do a little better than this. Maybe they want land with horses if they live "out there or down there" or an actual house if they live in a "happening" place, to make six figures before taxes and after fringes, or if they have a family, take home six figures in cash and be able to say "I am a millionaire, if you don't count what I still owe the banks" by the time they are 40 or 45 and maybe they want to be able to go the mall for all their shopping even if there are a couple of stores there they can't even afford the underwear at and maybe be able to take that coach ticket to Europe or Hawaii wouldn't hurt, either. ...and after they have kids to get a boob job.  You know, upper-middle class.

This all sort of underscores why this is becoming a center-left country. We just live in a more competitive culture and economy than we did when we were tots and school kids in the 80s and 90s and more Americans think if they were given a real chance, they could make it.

[Simfan34]

This all sort of underscores why this is becoming a center-left country. We just live in a more competitive culture and economy than we did when we were tots and school kids in the 80s and 90s and more Americans think if they were given a real chance, they could make it.

I don''t think this assertion really follows your argument. What I think it does indicate is that the GOP is seen as hostile to middle class interests as opposed to special interests, in opposing tax increases, health care reform, military cuts, etc. In a scenario where that wasn't the case, a competitive culture would lend itself to economically liberal politics- nominally those of the GOP- being predominant. The Democratic Party has become an economically liberal party- assuming that there was a time where they weren't- and instead captures that niche.

But I think the article is a lot more revealing in what it says about our perception of things, and actually what you say JJ says is closer to the mark.  The underlying "myth" (perhaps that's too unkind a word) or assumption behind American society in the past half century has been the existence of a gargantuan middle class that drives the dialogue, both political and economic, in this country. In all honesty, if you were to come up with figures (and I hazily recall seeing some), you'd find that somewhere between 75% to 90% of Americans would identify themselves as belonging to the "middle class".  And of course you'd find someone in a 2,000 sq ft house and someone in a 8,000 sq ft house both maintaining the idea they both belonged to the same socio-economic strata. I do think if you were to put them in the same room one would identify the other as being in a different class, however. But that is besides the point.

The fact is that the great American egalitarianism has been predicated on the existence of a massive middle class that is in all likelihood far smaller than anyone would like to admit. The question is, do we ever realize that fact,  and following that, do we do anything about it? You talk about rising expectations  amongst the youth and I think that points us in the direction that we're going. People today, especially the young, are far more exposed to the lives led by others, and please bear with me as what I am about to say may sound rather affected- I don't intend it to.

When people see their friends and acquaintances going, as you said, to places like Europe or Hawaii on Facebook, or go shopping at stores like Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom, it reinforces the idea that this is something attainable. When one reads about people working for PriceWaterhouseCoopers or Goldman Sachs, it again reinforces the idea "if he could earn a six-figure salary, so can I," regardless of whether or not that's a realistic prospect. So we do see rising expectations, which is natural, but I think the degree to which we are aware of others lifestyles inflates them.

This is the dangerous part- they just aren't attainable. Almost weekly I find myself reading some article about the rentership society that is emerging, that home ownership is an unattainable dream for a generation saddled with student loan debt and unpaid internships and low paying jobs. The decline of manufacturing has not only decimated the working class, but also the managerial class that went along with it, and now I will borrow from opebo and say there is a schism emerging, with a great host of low-paying retail jobs, a shrinking number of managerial, mid-level, white-collar jobs, and a few extravagantly paying top tier jobs that require high amounts of education and other intangibles. It's a rather distressing game of rising expectations and diminishing prospects, and that is perhaps what is likely to end the idea of the "whole-nation middle class".

Just my take on the issue.

[memphis]

Probably voted for Obama? Once you take out the underclass, who are strongly Dem, everybody else leans slightly Republican.  This is a sucha content free puff piece. In America today "middle class" is a code word for whoever is using the phrase talking about himself. Everybody thinks of himself as middle class because whether one earns 30k or 150k, we are always contrasting ourselves those poor people over there and those rich people over there.

[Cory]

In America today "middle class" is a code word for whoever is using the phrase talking about himself. Everybody thinks of himself as middle class because whether one earns 30k or 150k, we are always contrasting ourselves those poor people over there and those rich people over there.

This.

[Beet]

In America today "middle class" is a code word for whoever is using the phrase talking about himself. Everybody thinks of himself as middle class because whether one earns 30k or 150k, we are always contrasting ourselves those poor people over there and those rich people over there.

This.

^^^

[angus]

Of course  Opebo will say that almost no one is middle class and JJ will say that anyone could consider themselves middle class but here is a little peice on MSN about it. As a pragmatic and practical Democrat (at least on 1950s style issues), I agree with it.

http://money.msn.com/investing/c_galleryregular.aspx?cp-documentid=250284193

Basically, someone who has a 3 bedroom house in Texas or nice 1 or 2 bedroom condo in California, makes 20 or 25 bucks an hour, or maybe 30 or 35 if they have a spouse and kids, doesn't have to shop at Walmart but not always at the mall,  can fly coach to Florida once a year, can go to the doctor and can contribute a couple of hundred dollars to their basic long-term savings accounts each month. Politically, probably voted for Obama unless they were pro-life.  Basically someone who is about average but much  more likely somewhat more than a little less.

Any overriding of this parastatement can be used to more or less describe any group in the US unless you don't want it to.  

Though, I feel that the average young person in college probably wants to do a little better than this. Maybe they want land with horses if they live "out there or down there" or an actual house if they live in a "happening" place, to make six figures before taxes and after fringes, or if they have a family, take home six figures in cash and be able to say "I am a millionaire, if you don't count what I still owe the banks" by the time they are 40 or 45 and maybe they want to be able to go the mall for all their shopping even if there are a couple of stores there they can't even afford the underwear at and maybe be able to take that coach ticket to Europe or Hawaii wouldn't hurt, either. ...and after they have kids to get a boob job.  You know, upper-middle class.

This all sort of underscores why this is becoming a center-left country. We just live in a more competitive culture and economy than we did when we were tots and school kids in the 80s and 90s and more Americans think if they were given a real chance, they could make it.

Yeah!  Heall fucking yeah!  Bite the bitches! 

Seriously, though, find something decent to rant about before you start ranting.  Let the angry part precede the weasel part, know what I mean?  I'm middle class too, by the way.  Don't mind admitting it, but bitching about being middle class is a bit like a captain's boy bitching to the other slaves aboard a Greek cargo vessel about how his cheese tastes too salty, not knowing that most of the other slaves haven't tasted anything other than curds and water for months on end.Your post is pretty much gibberish.  Your post contains some perceived laments and some almost cogent recollections, and I even read it all--I enjoy angry ranting of all stripes--but you seriously need to get some ideas into your head before you start to experiment with your (admittedly talented) brand of whining and bitching.  At least get a good angry drunk on so you'll have an excuse tomorrow.  Otherwise, you're just a naive bourgeoisie fool with a computer, and a gripe about only being able to afford one or two trans-Pacific vacations per year.  Is that really all there is to the depths of your soul, man?

[Benj]

Probably voted for Obama? Once you take out the underclass, who are strongly Dem, everybody else leans slightly Republican.

It does say "unless they're pro-life". If you separate out voters into those who favor legal abortion and those who oppose legal abortion, I would imagine the vast majority of voters who favor legal abortion voted for Obama at all income levels, and the reverse for those who oppose legal abortion. It's not a perfect match, but maybe 80% of those who favor legal abortion voted for Obama, and maybe 80% of those who oppose legal abortion voted for Romney (allowing that there are slightly more who favor legal abortion than oppose it, so Obama leads narrowly overall).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But... yes. It is pretty content-free.

[Person Man]

Of course  Opebo will say that almost no one is middle class and JJ will say that anyone could consider themselves middle class but here is a little peice on MSN about it. As a pragmatic and practical Democrat (at least on 1950s style issues), I agree with it.

http://money.msn.com/investing/c_galleryregular.aspx?cp-documentid=250284193

Basically, someone who has a 3 bedroom house in Texas or nice 1 or 2 bedroom condo in California, makes 20 or 25 bucks an hour, or maybe 30 or 35 if they have a spouse and kids, doesn't have to shop at Walmart but not always at the mall,  can fly coach to Florida once a year, can go to the doctor and can contribute a couple of hundred dollars to their basic long-term savings accounts each month. Politically, probably voted for Obama unless they were pro-life.  Basically someone who is about average but much  more likely somewhat more than a little less.

Any overriding of this parastatement can be used to more or less describe any group in the US unless you don't want it to.  

Though, I feel that the average young person in college probably wants to do a little better than this. Maybe they want land with horses if they live "out there or down there" or an actual house if they live in a "happening" place, to make six figures before taxes and after fringes, or if they have a family, take home six figures in cash and be able to say "I am a millionaire, if you don't count what I still owe the banks" by the time they are 40 or 45 and maybe they want to be able to go the mall for all their shopping even if there are a couple of stores there they can't even afford the underwear at and maybe be able to take that coach ticket to Europe or Hawaii wouldn't hurt, either. ...and after they have kids to get a boob job.  You know, upper-middle class.

This all sort of underscores why this is becoming a center-left country. We just live in a more competitive culture and economy than we did when we were tots and school kids in the 80s and 90s and more Americans think if they were given a real chance, they could make it.

Yeah!  Heall fucking yeah!  Bite the bitches! 

Seriously, though, find something decent to rant about before you start ranting.  Let the angry part precede the weasel part, know what I mean?  I'm middle class too, by the way.  Don't mind admitting it, but bitching about being middle class is a bit like a captain's boy bitching to the other slaves aboard a Greek cargo vessel about how his cheese tastes too salty, not knowing that most of the other slaves haven't tasted anything other than curds and water for months on end.Your post is pretty much gibberish.  Your post contains some perceived laments and some almost cogent recollections, and I even read it all--I enjoy angry ranting of all stripes--but you seriously need to get some ideas into your head before you start to experiment with your (admittedly talented) brand of whining and bitching.  At least get a good angry drunk on so you'll have an excuse tomorrow.  Otherwise, you're just a naive bourgeoisie fool with a computer, and a gripe about only being able to afford one or two trans-Pacific vacations per year.  Is that really all there is to the depths of your soul, man?

Hmmm...mostly negative, but a few strong complements. I'll agree that this wasn't the best thing to do, I have just been really bored lately. There have been times that I have been so busy, I can only use the internet to check the weather and news. Cycles, right? 

Probably voted for Obama? Once you take out the underclass, who are strongly Dem, everybody else leans slightly Republican.

It does say "unless they're pro-life". If you separate out voters into those who favor legal abortion and those who oppose legal abortion, I would imagine the vast majority of voters who favor legal abortion voted for Obama at all income levels, and the reverse for those who oppose legal abortion. It's not a perfect match, but maybe 80% of those who favor legal abortion voted for Obama, and maybe 80% of those who oppose legal abortion voted for Romney (allowing that there are slightly more who favor legal abortion than oppose it, so Obama leads narrowly overall).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

But... yes. It is pretty content-free.

Well, in the exit polls for 2012, 59% of surveyed voters said they generally wanted abortion to be available and 36% of the same said they generally wanted abortion to be a crime. (of course no one knows the who (the dr,mom, dad?), how (violent crime? sex crime? drug crime?) and what (everything else) about that possibility). About 30% of those who wanted abortion to be generally available voted for Romney and about 19% of those who wanted it to be a crime voted for Obama. Apparently there are more loyal and reliable moderate and liberal Republicans than they are loyal and reliable moderate and conservative Democrats. Or maybe this has to do with some moderate tory-like Republican not believing that Romney is really pro-life because he said he was pro-choice once.