Forum Railfan Thread

[opebo]

I like all trains whose windows open.

Excellent point, Lewis - its no fun if you're just sealed in.

It's positively uncomfortable.

Its my biggest complaint about the buses here in Thailand - they're all air-conditioned and sealed in nowadays. 

[Joe Republic]

The final scenes of Back To The Future III are just about my favorite part of any movie ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ktMe0xclxA

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

my biggest complaint ...(about) buses ...(is) they're ... air-conditioned...

I'm starting to see why people think you are strange

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

http://www.ydhr.ca/ There is a heritage rail here.

And for the record I have no problem with steam engines - I have a problem with people who claim they are the only "real" train engines.

[Ban my account ffs!]

The thing about Amtrak is that it's always late, it's slow as hell, and it's using almost exclusively 20-40 year old rolling stock except some of the new stuff they got from the stimulus.

But it is very comfortable.  For people who have time to leisurely travel and $$$ to spend, it's 2nd to none.  The Empire Builder is the most popular long haul line that Amtrak does... seemingly unlikely because most of it runs across the empty northern plains... but people up there do actually depend on the train to get around because air services is intermittent at best.  Once you pass the Twin Cities, you won't see another large city until Seattle.

It is a beautiful trip, and its timing is set up so that you can see the Rocky Mountains in Montana during day light.  During the summer they have park service employees who give presentations and point out landmarks along with a wine and cheese tasting.

That's it:  Rail travel in North America is mostly held up by Northeast/west coast/Chicago commuters and tourists.. with a smattering of people riding from town to town because they refuse to drive.

Outside of the Northeast Corridor where some areas see speeds of 100-150mph, the speed limit is held to a ridiculous 79mph... a speed that trains were beating back in the 1920s.  The arcane railroad rules in the U.S. have kept passenger rail down, requiring expensive automatic cab signaling and locomotives that can withstand a crash in order to allow speeds in excess of 79mph.  Even then, the track has to be upgraded by the freight railroads, who don't need high speeds... the result is that only a small portion of the California Zephyr line reaches 90mph.  Hardly worth the price and more of a fluke than anything.

Add to this the fact that Republicans have an unnatural aversion to train travel and are constantly seeking to defund any monies that go to passenger rail (while, of course, defending large subsidies to airlines and auto/oil)... and the state of rail travel in the U.S. is in very sad shape.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Commuter rail is well used in areas but passenger rail is not.

[Franzl]

Passenger rail is used in areas where it actually provides good service. Continental Europe, in other words, particularly France and Germany.

[TJ in Oregon]

I'd be perfectly willing to ride a train home from Cleveland to Sandusky instead of driving except in order to do so, I would need to have someone to drive me to the station at 4 AM in a somewhat questionable neighborhood (since the rapid doesn't run at 4 AM), board a train that would take 70 minutes to get to Sandusky, and then have someone pick me up around 5:15 and drive fifteen more minutes home. All of this, plus a $21 ticket.

In the end it would take me twice as long to get home, inconvenience two extra people at each end, mean I'd need to leave at 4 AM, cost more than gas money, and still require about 45 minutes of someone driving rather than the 75 it would take me.

No wonder I don't use a train...

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'd be perfectly willing to ride a train home from Cleveland to Sandusky instead of driving except in order to do so, I would need to have someone to drive me to the station at 4 AM in a somewhat questionable neighborhood (since the rapid doesn't run at 4 AM), board a train that would take 70 minutes to get to Sandusky, and then have someone pick me up around 5:15 and drive fifteen more minutes home. All of this, plus a $21 ticket.

In the end it would take me twice as long to get home, inconvenience two extra people at each end, mean I'd need to leave at 4 AM, cost more than gas money, and still require about 45 minutes of someone driving rather than the 75 it would take me.

No wonder I don't use a train...

Intercity passenger rail will never be successful in the US without first building a great local transit system.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Local transit is very important is getting commuter rail to work properly. Sadly, some places here have systems that work the way they are supposed to, and we literally can not fit all the trains into our main train station that demand would have us.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Back to Rail Songs for a minute:

City of New Orleans - Steve Goodman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNb-TN1J3Hg&feature=related

Arlo Guthrie did a good job singing it as well.

The 1982 event in that linked video was hosted by Johnny Cash who also had a number of good rail songs himself.

[minionofmidas]

I'd be perfectly willing to ride a train home from Cleveland to Sandusky

The huge advantage is that you can read or doze, or even work depending on what your work is, on the train.
My father commuted from Frankfurt to Bonn for several years. Two hours trainride from main station to main station, plus two subway rides in Frankfurt and a streetcar ride in Bonn. Over three hours each way. Yes, he could have had that faster by car. No, overall it wouldn't have been a better use of his time (besides the issue of him having never owned a car all his life, and only getting a driving license around that time).

[minionofmidas]

Back to Rail Songs for a minute

There's even a great one about the coming of Diesel engines!

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/clark-guy/texas-1947-77.html

[TJ in Oregon]

I'd be perfectly willing to ride a train home from Cleveland to Sandusky instead of driving except in order to do so, I would need to have someone to drive me to the station at 4 AM in a somewhat questionable neighborhood (since the rapid doesn't run at 4 AM), board a train that would take 70 minutes to get to Sandusky, and then have someone pick me up around 5:15 and drive fifteen more minutes home. All of this, plus a $21 ticket.

In the end it would take me twice as long to get home, inconvenience two extra people at each end, mean I'd need to leave at 4 AM, cost more than gas money, and still require about 45 minutes of someone driving rather than the 75 it would take me.

No wonder I don't use a train...

Intercity passenger rail will never be successful in the US without first building a great local transit system.

Cleveland’s mass transit system is (I’m told anyway) better than most mid-to-large US cities. People do ride it to go specific places, but the problem with the train system is that it only really goes four places: Downtown, the airport, University Circle, and Shaker Heights (a crazy rich suburb). Too many of its stops are in declining “ghetto” neighborhoods. It would work much better if it went into the western suburbs since that’s the working to middle class area that I would suspect would be most open to it. I’ve taken the train after Indians games before back to University Circle (where Case is) and notice the western bound line toward the airport is always full of people who park and ride there. The three eastern lines are always nearly empty except for an occasional college student and a scattered set of poor people because one of the homelessness programs around has the goal of buying them train passes. There’s only one line that even goes west of the river.

But, all of this would require a major investment in putting in a new line (even one would be huge if done correctly—into the western suburbs) but the rapid’s budget is in the process of being cut rather than expanded as the declining city tries to make do with what we’ve got.

[TJ in Oregon]

I'd be perfectly willing to ride a train home from Cleveland to Sandusky

The huge advantage is that you can read or doze, or even work depending on what your work is, on the train.
My father commuted from Frankfurt to Bonn for several years. Two hours trainride from main station to main station, plus two subway rides in Frankfurt and a streetcar ride in Bonn. Over three hours each way. Yes, he could have had that faster by car. No, overall it wouldn't have been a better use of his time (besides the issue of him having never owned a car all his life, and only getting a driving license around that time).

I would agree except to do it, I would have be get up at 4 AM (that's the only time the train leaves to go that direction) and have people drive me all over the place to save like half an hour of my time at best. I'd just have to hope I don't get mugged or something as well. I would feel a lot safer in the middle of the day. I could possible work on a train, though I am pretty much incapable of sleeping in any kind of vehicle.

[minionofmidas]

Back to Rail Songs for a minute:

City of New Orleans - Steve Goodman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNb-TN1J3Hg&feature=related

Arlo Guthrie did a good job singing it as well.

The 1982 event in that linked video was hosted by Johnny Cash who also had a number of good rail songs himself.

And of course, you can't talk about that song without talking about the German cover...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzEOvyDcVas

lmao.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Let's talk about stations for a moment.

This is my local train station in Amherst:



It's on the Amtrak Vermonter line between New York and St Albans (which used to go up to Montreal and may some day again), but the Vermonter's going to get rerouted west of the Connecticut River in about a year. There's talk of opening a new rail corridor from Brattleboro to New London soon, though, which would use the Amherst station as well as several in Connecticut that still need to actually be built. I'm pretty sure Amherst and the termini are the only stations on this proposed line (the Central Corridor) that exist already, actually.

[opebo]

my biggest complaint ...(about) buses ...(is) they're ... air-conditioned...

I'm starting to see why people think you are strange

Yes my tastes tend to run in opposition to the common fashion.

[Ban my account ffs!]

the Great Northern Depot in Bemidji in 1912


And recently (it now houses the local historical society and a folk school)


Perhaps more appropriate for the time of year.


Here's a shopped picture of Union Depot in downtown St. Paul which will connect commuter rail, intercity rail, buses, and light rail when it is completed (the Central Corridor light rail line is currently under construction and will open in 2014)


The Great Northern Depot in downtown Minneapolis.  Alas, like most historic architecture in downtown Minneapolis, it was torn down to make way for new purty glass buildings.  (The Minneapolis Federal Reserve building is on the site now).


The Milwaukee Road Depot still stands

[opebo]

[Simfan34]

I like trains! A lot! Amtrak, however, is a joke.

Romney might have very well lost my vote here. Arts and Amtrak? What about the DoD and entitlements. Amtrak might bloody well be profitable if it's business model wasn't so messed up. I can take a train from Chicago to Osceola, Iowa to meet it's 4,000 people, but I can't take one to Des Moines? Amtrak needs to stop serving these ridiculous small towns- if they're going to be served, they ought to be under a state regional rail authority.

And why, unless I was a tourist, would I want to take a train that runs from Chicago to San Francisco in three days, when I could take a plane that takes 3 hours? Even if I was a tourist, why would I want to spend $1,200 on an Amtrak train when it's cramped, old, and has mediocre food? Even VIA Rail is of better quality.

We need decent inter-city service that runs from cities of decent size and sleeper trains for farther distances. Privatize the long-distance routes for tourist service.

As for the arts, how I long for the days that being elitist was a conservative thing.